A Passion for Combat

Two Fighters in a Clinch
Body to Body Contact
Getting It On Dick to Dick
 "I've always found that combat and frot are pretty closely tied together...
And I've never found a fighter who didn't like to frot."
In Combat and Frot: A Boxer Warrior Speaks, contests both athletic and erotic are the theme as one remarkable Warrior revives the ethos of the Pankration and speaks of the joys of his life in boxing and frot. 

All of our warrior posts, both here and in Personal Stories, are important. In my view this one is particularly significant, because it heightens our understanding of what frot and combat mean. Warrior Patrick is an extraordinarily fine and original thinker. His ideas have changed my own.

So check him out dude.

And I encourage you to tell your own story, and either send it to me for posting, or post it yourself in Personal Stories. What you have to say constitutes a unique oral history. Don't let it be lost. Write it down and put it out there for your brother warriors to hear.

(Please note: Partrick's words came to me in two emails, which are labeled email 1 and email 2.)

 I've always found that combat and frot are pretty closely tied together...
And I've never found a fighter who didn't like to frot.
A Passion for Combat
Two Fighters in a Clinch
Body to Body Contact
Getting It On Dick to Dick
Email 1
Glad to be in the forum. I have to say that I've been out for more than 20 years, since the beginning stages of the plague, and have never been interested in buttfucking. Sure, I've done it a few times and had it done, but it wasn't for me. I've always enjoyed frot as a way to get off, and so have all of my sex partners. So I'm kind of surprised to see that there's a need to make a political purpose out of it, just because I always feel that if you don't identify with something don't do it just to fit in.
From the beginning I've always rejected the gay "establishment." I never thought it spoke to me as a gay man, even when wild, unprotected, promiscuous sex was the message. I grew up in New York City in the 70s and 80s, went to college in Greenwich Village, and never identified in any way with the gay "community." I was always attracted to combat, and since I found it difficult to find anyone who was even remotely tuned into that on a daily basis, I spent most of my time in a straight boxing gym sublimating my desire but wanting to get it on with a lot of the guys at the gym (which, unfortunately, never happened). My fantasies were always concerned with wrestling or boxing and getting it on dick to dick with my opponent afterwards. I finally hooked up with some guys through the New York Wrestling Club in the 80s and have made some lifelong friendships as a result.
Like some others who have posted on the site, I agree that frot is the only activity that only two guys can perform, and it surprises me that more people don't realize that.
Kissing and rubbing and lightly punching your man to climax while talking about fighting is the hottest form of sex I've ever had. I can see him the whole time and really connect in a way that anal sex doesn't offer.
I understand that many people think that the definition of gay sex is anal sex. My best friend, who's straight and has known me for 25 years, was surprised when I told her that a lot of gay men don't practice anal sex. Shows like "Queer As Folk" perpetuate the myth of anal sex. I respect the wishes of others to do whatever they want in the bedroom, including anal sex, but it's not for me.

Emai 2

Thanks for your reply, Bill. And thanks for the compliments. I've never really thought of what I do as being strong in character, just not interested in what any "establishment" has to say. I survived 12 years of Catholic school and rebelled against that.

And when I came out I rebelled against the gay "establishment." I thought the butch, macho clone look was really hot when I was in my early 20s, but I couldn't relate to the effeminacy behind it. I realized early on that most of it was just a front. Since then I've always liked masculine guys who are in shape but not perfectly built, and the only ones I could ever relate to sexually have been fighters. Maybe unlike many (most?) gay men, I don't have a lot of experience with gay men who don't fight.

My earliest memories of jerking off were while watching boxing matches, and to me frotting was always just a natural extension of that. Seeing two fighters in a clinch in a corner was the most thrilling thing I could imagine. Like some other guys I know, I used to consider boxing magazines porno, going to the magazine store and waiting until no one was looking to get a peek at a shirtless, gloved up Mike Rossman or Carlos Palomino. Then I'd hurriedly buy the magazine and stick it under my shirt and run home and jerk off. And this was in Brooklyn, where I'm sure no one cared. I laugh every time I think of how silly that was.
I used to wrestle and box my tough, macho straight friends when I was younger, and I always loved the body-to-body contact and even the fact that it didn't go any further than the fight. Sometimes we'd even wrestle with all our clothes on--even that was hot. Our "unfinished business" to me was sometimes more thrilling because I could replay the fight in my head later and the ending would be different. I've always found that combat and frot are pretty closely tied together. Most of my friends who are not into combat seem to engage in anal sex. I'm not sure they understand me, and I'm not sure I understand them. But hey, different strokes....
Like you, I'm sick of the epidemic, and you know, I'm not trying to win any awards here, but I've always believed that despite the opposition we face and no matter how good it feels to practice unsafe sex, we must take personal responsibility for our actions. I'm not trying to act superior--it's just always been my personal philosophy. I don't know how many people you've lost to AIDS, but in the past 20 years I have lost only three people close to me (and I have a lot of gay friends). Three is still a high number, no matter how you slice it, but I have talked to gay men whose entire support system has been decimated by the disease. So I definitely share your tiredness. All you have to do is see The Quilt once to be forever moved and changed.
I've been training on and off at boxing gyms for the past 13 years--and actually now I'm in the best shape of my life. Taking that first step into the gym was probably the most difficult thing I ever had to do (even more than coming out), but it's the best thing I ever did for myself. At first it was because I was so turned on by boxing that I wanted to be around it all--the sweat, the leather, the gear, the maleness. But over time I fell in love with everything about it--and now I feel like the erotic side and the athletic side have merged. I wish more gay men could experience this, because the benefits are numerous, intangible, and inexpressible. I almost feel like I'm experiencing something that almost no one else does--or at least no one that I know does. I'm way past amateur fighting age (almost 39), but I still train just like a competitive fighter does. I work with a trainer 3 or 4 days a week and do weights, sprints, and boxing drills and spar, and I couldn't imagine my life without boxing. Seven years ago I got a boxing tattoo on my right arm, because I know I'll be a warrior till the day I die. I'm very lucky, too, to be with another warrior who is just right for me. He wrestles and I box, and each of us respects the other's space to do what he wants with the combat aspect as long as it doesn't interfere with the relationship. It's been about 3 years now, and things are pretty damn good. I tried being with someone for 5 years who gave lip service to understanding my passion for combat, and it just didn't work out.
Bill, I hope you don't underestimate the power of the Web and of having your own site. POZ, I'm sure, has its own agenda [see Letters to POZ], and yes, one would think that it has a responsibility to the PWAs, but it doesn't have to do anything it doesn't want to. You've created a good forum with Cock Rub Warriors and the word will get out over time, through word of mouth--just give it time. The people who've joined seem to be happy to have a place to talk about this topic without anyone judging them, and that's a pretty powerful thing. A number of warriors I know have self-esteem issues, but we all have a bond and it won't be broken. I boxed in an all-gay and lesbian tournament in San Francisco in 1993. It was a tremendous experience, because I got to meet some great people from all over the country. There were, I think, about 8 bouts--and, in fact, several of the fighters were HIV+. The gay press certainly was not ready to hear about gay boxing, and in many ways, they still aren't. The Gay Games committees are still highly disdainful of putting boxing in the Gay Games. They have put many obstacles in our way since the very beginning. But they have put martial arts and wrestling in as sports. So, we're still marginalized, but it doesn't mean that we're gonna stop doing it.
I'm actually probably more marginalized than many of the posters, because I take boxing very seriously, and I find that lots of guys won't meet me precisely because I am a real boxer. For many guys the fight is in their heads, and that's cool. But some guys would rather let someone unskilled hit them, I guess maybe because it's exciting to them, or maybe they don't understand that an experienced, skilled boxer can take it at just the right level for them. Oh well. I've still met some great guys who are willing to take a chance.

And I've never found a fighter who didn't like to frot.

Bill's comment: Pretty amazing huh dudes:

 I've always found that combat and frot are pretty closely tied together...
And I've never found a fighter who didn't like to frot.
Now remember dudes, this is not to take away a thing from guys into slow, sensual, non-combative frot. We're all part of the same brotherhood. Still, Warrior Patrick has made a strong statement about combat and frot that I won't forget.
Warrior Patrick also told me he was very fond of my story TUFF GUYZ. Warriors into boxing might want to check it out. And dude, if you have a story or thoughts like Patrick, please post them. Doing that will make you stronger, and it will make your warrior brothers stronger too.
future sport
future sex


Warriors Speak Home

Cockrub Warriors Site Guide

The Man2Man Alliance

Heroic Homosex

Frot Men


Frot Club

Personal Stories

| What's Hot About Frot | Hyacinthine Love | THE FIGHT | Kevin! | Cockrub Warriors of Mars | The Avenger | Antagony | TUFF GUYZ | Musings of a BGM into Frot | Warriors Speak | Ask Sensei Patrick | Warrior Fiction | Frot: The Next Sexual Revolution |
| Heroes Site Guide | Toward a New Concept of M2M | What Sex Is |In Search of an Heroic Friend | Masculinity and Spirit |
| Jocks and Cocks | Gilgamesh | The Greeks | Hoplites! | The Warrior Bond | Nude Combat | Phallic, Masculine, Heroic | Reading |
| Heroic Homosex Home | Cockrub Warriors Home | Heroes Home | Story of Bill and Brett Home | Frot Club Home |
| Definitions | FAQs | Join Us | Contact Us | Tell Your Story |

© All material on this site Copyright 2001 - 2010 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.