Email 1

Yup, it's true. I'm a regular guy who likes guys. Never could identify with the femme stuff at all. But instead of the warrior/combat/competition role epitomized on the board, my personal experience was always centered on the sports-jock fraternal feelings guys often have together where athletes share a common bond. Those pure male buddy relationships that can sometimes lead to sexual expression of the trust between them -- guys who go the next step and experience mental and physical union in their homosexual climax.

At first in Little League, then later in High School basketball, I always admired the buddy-type psychology that permeated the sports mentality. And, as I wrote to Bill and he published on the site [in The Romance of Frot], this was the foundation of my own first-time experience at 17, achieving that totally male union with a basketball buddy's hard cock pistoning sensuously against my own, male to male, losing our cherries in homosexual climax. From that moment when I first ejaculated in another boy's semen, the sense of intimacy was overwhelming and set me on the course I still follow today.

This athlete mentality is detailed very well in Dave Kopay's book, The Dave Kopay Story, written after he "came out" when still in pro-football. That trust between buddies that can manifest itself in sexual expression is a theme he writes on, and not surprisingly, "frot" was his preferred (instinctive?) technique, reaching his first homosexual orgasm while rubbing fully clothed with a frat buddy while in college. Other similar experiences followed, always with their clothes on for fear of being discovered.

Written largely in the first person, his tale is that of shy, reserved college jocks afraid to admit, even to themselves, what they were doing was sexual. He gives no racy details, simply admitting, "I always had an orgasm," to acknowledge he ejaculated inside his pants during those discreet make-out/frot sessions with his bud. Later on, in the privacy of an off-campus motel room after nights on the town, they still had difficulty accepting the nature of their relationship, at first only getting partially undressed for (presumably) sex in their underwear. He writes this eventually progressed to getting all their clothes off, and Kopay, who had only known orgasm in his jockey shorts up to that point, was finally able to have full naked contact with his buddy.

Despite their frankly homosexual activity, Kopay says it was never openly discussed or acknowledged between them. It always had to appear spontaneous, and unexpected, probably as a means of denial. Comments like, " I was so drunk last night....can't remember what happened," were made as a cover-up or copout.

But visits to the motel room continued, often premised by an innocent sounding suggestion like, "Man, I'm really wasted tonite....lets go crash at the motel." TRANSLATION: "I want to be with you tonight." Kopay's rendition is that of two college buddies who KNEW what was happening, but were mentally unable to accept it in those days. He doesn't use the word "frot" but instead describes what he calls full frontal "simulated heterosexual intercourse" between them to indicate contact of penis and testicles, letting the reader fill-in the blanks about these "simulations." In retrospect, Kopay chronicles those episodes with his college buddy as his first homosexual relationship, allowing him to express his real self and have his orgasms naturally the way he had needed for so long -- male to male. In a sense, it was his "coming out" to himself mentally.

I found his story fascinating and he has since become a legend among gay athletes everywhere. His struggle to balance his love for football with the fact he liked guys is worth reading. In many ways, he was an inspiring Cock Rub Warrior during the 60s and 70s when "coming out" was unheard of, especially in a sacred macho arena like pro football.

Email 2

Dear Bill -

My note to David was purposely forwarded to you because I think you have the brain cells and the innate sensitivity to understand the paradox in which gay athletes find themselves. After all, so the question arises, "How can you be in a masculine sport and possibly be gay at the same time?" Some find it inconceivable that REAL GUYS can possibly be anything but straight.

We know different. But it must be agony for those dudes who love their sport, who DO think of themselves as "real guys," yet gotta deal with their natural need for male intimacy and the full realization of their masculine selves.

Though written some years ago, Kopay's book is more than a personal journey. It's also in some ways an expose of the hypocrisy in pro sports, much like Peter Gent's North Dallas Forty.

dave kopay

Personally, I found myself strongly identifying with Kopay's inner struggle between his real nature and the overwhelming expectations imposed by both the game and society in general. The almost agonizing shyness of a college jock is evident even in what he does not spell out in the book. Because of the social taboos in the 60s and 70s, he had no way to deal with his need in high school sports, his "first time" not happening until college. We can assume during that earlier period he probably had homosexual fantasies, but only expressed them through teenage masturbation. But he never really mentions it, only hinting (by omission) that it was indeed so. He was forced to strictly repress himself then, and even later in college.

Discretion, secrecy, and clandestine get-togethers, always staying fully clothed, marked the beginning relationship with his college buddy. Yet even this chaste, incredibly innocent "rubbing" with his buddy was enough for Kopay to lose his inhibitions long enough to experience homosexual orgasms if only in his briefs, and always discretely concealed beneath his jeans. The frustration is obvious, and it seems clear these episodes were intended to be described as an almost helpless surrender to his real sexual need. Almost a pathetic appeal for understanding what was trapped in his psyche. Between the lines, we understand those episodes marked a mental awakening for him, even if he was only permitted a limited fulfillment of sorts, because he'd made the transition -- accepting those exciting, private make-out sessions with his buddy that regularly triggered his ejaculations.

From the first orgasm, he realized it was a homosexual experience. Probably his buddy did too. There were some guilt feelings, BUT they kept doing it -- sneaking off to porches and empty rooms at the frat house where they could bearhug up in private, even almost getting caught once. Not taking too long, but long enough for Kopay to reach an orgasm. Paradoxically, it sounds hot on the face of it----two horny college guys "rubbing" together with their clothes on, yet they were both too repressed to admit what was going on. The behavior we would recognize as instinctive, their acceptance was not.

There is a tragic tone in Kopay's writing It was a period in history when two guys together were not even allowed to recognize what they felt as REAL, and so tried to disguise and hide their desires even in their own minds. Their relationship eventually became more overtly sexual as time went on, yet strangely they never acknowledged it.

Sadly, his college buddy was killed in Viet Nam shortly after college. Without using the words exactly, Kopay indicates the guy was his first love. He devoted more words to this college affair than to any other.

The book is full of references to teams he played with, other anecdotal experiences, etc., (certain teams in the NFL had unofficial reps because of their homosexual players), and the attempts made to prevent his book from being published. Some even begged him not to publish it, fearful it would tarnish the "image" of pro football.

Bill, I mean it when I think of Dave Kopay as a courageous guy, especially during difficult times. If you haven't read his book, I hope you do. He's certainly a Warrior in the best tradition.

Here's the link to his fan page:

http://members.aol.com/marinersc/kopay.htm

Email 3

With the power of the Net and other media, we can get the word out to those who need to hear it. I am thinking particularly of those who believe they are all alone -- guys who for whatever reason, just can't identify with either world, gay or straight. There may be a great many more of these than commonly believed. Yeah, regular guys who just don't fit psychologically into the standard mold of either/or.

I don't want to keep rehashing the Kopay story, but he was a perfect example. A real guy, not fictional, who loved football while forced to harbor a dark secret within. If we had existed back in the 60s, maybe, just maybe, info from a group like ours might have helped his pain. It was almost heartbreaking to understand what he must have gone through in those days. The inner longing for something special with a bud that was totally taboo in the college jock world. His book took guts. His confessions took guts. The story of his first time encounter proves what terrible frustrations he must have had. Can you imagine anyone so repressed, so horny, so incredibly wired that his first time rubbing fully clothed against his bud was all it took for him to cum in his pants? He admits it as an honest statement of what happened, simply acknowledging his first homosexual orgasm. As fellow males, we can only guess from our own experience how intense his feelings must have been at that critical moment of psychological truth.

Bill, it's that kinda truth that unites us.

Who knows how many other regular guys there are out there who need to know this, guys who feel as isolated and desparate as Kopay must have been.

Hopefully we can help those guys understand that their inner selves, their fundamental masculinity, need not be compromised but instead recognized and celebrated in phallic union. Naked in both body and spirit, where the purity of those male feelings can be expressed honestly and without reservations.

dave kopay

AND

bill