Complete opposites



Complete opposites


Hi guys, college freshmen here, 19, black male. I've always been into guys for as long as i can remember. Up until 2 weeks ago when I found your site I was terrified of being with another guy. scared to be the giver/ receiver in any encounter, scared of disease, scared of the gay scene all together.

I don't look bad brown skin, nice teeth, 5;10, quarterback type build, thick eyebrows, chiseled face.

I get allot of looks from girls and guys at school. But, I'm scared to do anything. I been at school for almost a year but I haven't really done anything with anybody. All I've been doing is sitting in my apartment watching TV, study and play ball. I go out once in a while with friends and my roommates, but most of the time I don't do shit but surf the internet and jack off to whatever.

I just feel pretty fucking alone right now.

I don't even want to have sex with a guy as much as I want somebody I can just vibe with.

I've had so many strange male-to-male experiences up to this point it's almost unbelievable. starting from when I was 9 years old up to when I left high school.

I've had a best friend now for about 11 years now, he's awesome. The truest most incredible friendship a guy could ever had. We did everything together, it was like we were twins separated at birth, we looked like each other even had the same body type up until the 8th grade. He was my first frot experience. I remember one day when we were playing video games, Nintendo Punch out. i remember him leaning over and whispering in my ear.

'You wanna feel butts', it was damn funny when i think about it now, how primal he said it. i quickly agreed though. We rubbed each other up kissing each other and all this other stuff. we continued these type of games for about the next 4 years till we turned around 13. we stopped when we got caught by his parents the second time. I still loved it though and i wanted to do it again. The part I remember best is the heat of our naked bellies against our dicks when we held each other close. i remember when we wrestled how we used to slap each other's asses sometimes.

Sometimes we would wrestle in the back yard of his house or in the front yard where sometimes there were tons of kids. i was the best wrestler in all the kids in my neighborhood, i kicked everyone's ass who ever tried testing me. I would grab a hold of a kids forearm and swing them around in a circle till they lost balance and went flying. When we wrestled close I would always end up being on top of the other kid. My friend was just as good as me too. He was a real boy's boy. he lived and breathes sports as a matter of fact he plays sports in college now on a scholarship.

We went to each others elementary and middle school. We were part of the biggest clique in Jr. High, and we ruled the school in 8th grade. He went to my high school the first year and then left to go a private school. We had some incredible experiences together (getting in trouble n what not). I have allot of love for him as a friend.

We are still close but we don't talk and hang out as much as we used too. I did talk to him last week though and he's doing great. Still he's the only guy i've ever had any real experience with.

I would always fantasize about guys more and more while growing up. I used to get off to American gladiators (I can recite the names of all the male gladiators), Battle Dome (that had to be one of the most brute homoerotic shows on TV ever), Action movies I loved those huge beautiful muscular bodies WWF/WCW/WWE whatever. anytime I wanted to get off. That was my savior. Norman Smiley had to be the sexiest wrestler who ever lived my god that man was beautiful. Mr. Ass was another one. and Buff Bagwell, Booker T. Rob Van DAMN.

I really loved a guy with a nice bootie. I loves the two mounds of hard muscle that rises out from a guys lower back, I was obsessed with a nice bubble butt. But In actuality I could care less about a guy's butt-hole and anything going in or out of it.

I would be more turned on if a wrestler would bend another guy over and spank him with both their trunks on, than if they got naked and started butt-fucking each other. The muscle-bootie that some athletes had would really trip me out. Deon Sanders, Terell Davis, Derek Fisher, Tim Hardaway.

That guy from WCW i don't know his name, 'Kurt angle' whoa. both of the guys on his team america are amazing looking too.

I dated girls through my school years, but I never fucked any of them. Never wanted too. i still acted like the other guys, I acted experienced like I had a line of hoes I dicked down every now and then it's a game every gay guy has to learn how to play especially if your a black guy, you had to take the game to another level. I played the game but not that well. i was always known as that cute-goofy boy. i was still yearning though. In my second year of high school. i couldn't take it, I really wanted somebody. i wanted to be out, but i had so much more to lose then I had to gain.

I lost my marbles a little. I went from being moderately popular to being an outcast all by my own means. I was being an ass-hole to friends and cutting myself off from people, something i still have a habit of doing today. I was a little stressed a little depressed and it was visible, by family and friends.

Then my worst nightmare happened. A rumor leaked out that i was gay. it started super duper small. but it got huge. people wanted to know but they couldn't figure me out. I didn't want to say i was i didn't want to say i wasn't. and people kept on speculating and they couldn't get any answers. When people would try to pry it out of me, I usually choked up or made jokes about it.

The only visible gay dudes at my school were the atomic flamers (No offense). me on the other hand didn't fit the stereotype, didn't dress the stereotype, but i didn't dress super thug either and i didn't act like all the other guys. I dressed in regular school boy dress. People couldn't figure me out and it drove some people mad it seemed. I would walk by a group of people and they'd stop whatever they were talking about and rumors would whip around under their breath and as I walked farther away the whispers would turn into roars of laughter and the 'Oh yeah I heard that too'!! Some people were quiet about it, but some people were super vocal. It was torture going to school sometimes, i would skip school constantly with friends or without them. i went to a very mixed race, lower to middle class school and a huge one on top of that 2500+ students.

Thank god though i always had a couple friends to talk to during lunch. Sometimes when i had no one to chill wit and ended up sitting by myself, days like that turned me into a temporary paranoid schizophrenic. I worked out during the summer of my junior year and came back to the same school about 15-20 pounds more muscle, I grew 2 inches and had a squarer jaw. The jeers remained but things started to change, people became less abrasive of me and more interested. People wanted to get to know me just for the sake of knowing me it seemed. The fag jokes turned into stares and curiosity. i kept my head up and ended up making more friends. lots of girls and more and more guys. the rumors died down but not too much, the stigma still remained.

It was at this time in my senior year when things got interesting. Guy started testing me with little jokes, trying to get a rise out me literally. They were some guys who couldn't stand my presence and would talk allot of shit when i was anywhere near them.

It was torture sometimes, but it was an important lesson in human nature for me and the way people behave. I had to swallow allot of mess. Nobody ever laid hands on me though.

i remember hanging with a few guys from my school, one was out of school 19 and another was allot younger around 16 from a nearby apartment complex. Altogether it was 5 of us. I told my friend D i had never smoked weed before so he told me he wanted to be the first to get me high. He said he liked to see how people reacted when they got high the first time. i agreed. We were behind his friends house and we all took off our shirts so the smell of weed won't reek when you got back to our humble homes. Then we played a game of Chicago. We had 5 of us in the circle and we took turns hittin the blunt. The premise was that you took a hit and quickly pass the blunt and you wouldn't let out the smoke til the blunt got back to you. Basically to get as high as possible.

They got high alright, me i didn't get as high i held most of the smoke in my throat instead of my lungs (It was my first time couldn't take it like they did). Then these fools started acting crazy. started dancing jumping on each others backs and acting really gay smacking each other ass pulling each others pants down . They tried to coax me into it, I goofed around a little, but I mostly just stood in the background laughing my ass off. They kept looking at me telling me the high will really kick in soon. I was high but not like them. I remember I went to the corner store to get some gum. i was paranoid my dad might smell weed on me. I came back and I saw two of the guys making out. it was pretty hot. They saw me see them and were like whatever and joked like i wasn't even there. Of coarse i figured out the real reason he wanted to get me weeded. They wanted to get me into their little circle.

There are other situations.

i remember this one white guy who was on the football team he was around my height but had a huge chest he used to be fat but worked out for foot ball and was straight chiseled and plump. big chest flat stomach gorgeous face he was a senior too. He was an aggressive muscle head but, was still pretty cool. When we played basketball in PE he would bulldoze people left and right. This guy would joke with me allot. he came up to me sometimes and pinched my nipples for no reason. I remember we were playing one on one and this dude ended up taking off his shirts and it was like a we were playing football and basketball in one. We kept ramming into one another over and over again. Sometimes we floored each other on the ground. Even when we passed the ball to each other while we were checking up it was like at 30 mph. The whole time they were guys there watching up on the stands. They were girls in the bleachers too calling us a bunch of fags, but we didn't pay them any attention. I kept on getting a semi hard on i tried to hide in my baggy shorts. i tried to kept a straight face but couldn't help cracking a smile at what was really going on. he kept his gaze on me the whole time looking me straight in the eyes with this intense 'come wit it' look. I tried to make conversation by talking shit but he never said a word back. It was some pretty funny, raunchy shit. If you were there to see it you'd probably think it was pretty damn gay too.

i don't know. I had allot of these weird experiences with guys some tense some bad some good and some downright weird.

I remember I was standing at a garbage can waiting for a ride home one day. A big group of the rappers/new york type guys at my school were looking at me and laughing. i knew some of them and they were coming over to were I was. There was this one guy in the group. He was an incredible rapper, he could bust a freestyle at a whim. But most of all he was gorgeous. Brown skin with curly waves on his head, swampy brown/green eyes and plump lips that poked out forming a perfect circle under his nose. I never knew the guy but I would always see him looking at me usually when his friend were talking shit. He was known as one of the hardest guys in school and he even had a kid with some girl. i thought he would be the main guy cracking jokes when around his friends, but he never said a word about me. He would laugh though. He came around me and with his friends and they circled right around the garbage can i was leaning on. A couple of them said whassup and I stood there pretty quiet. They were still laughing. his girl was there too. I guess he saw my face and felt bad for me, he started cracking these weird jokes.

he said how his girl was ignoring him cause 'she's mad, because i kiss boys' i don?t know i can't help it. 'I just like to kiss boys'. His boys were there all laughing. I didn?t know what to do or why he was trying to sympathize with me or something. But he kept on joking about kissing boys. Then he ask me if i free-styled (rapping). i just nodded my head 'NAH'. They started talking and one of his friends started to kick a beat. A few of his boys started freestyling they kept messing up cause they were still laughing so hard. i was just standing there staring with a nervous smug look on my face. Then he started to freestyle he made a bunch of silly gay jokes in his freestyle and about how he thinks guys are hot. It was some pretty funny stuff. Then he started to slip he said something like 'the lie that i see is a reflection of me' then he cracked a few more lines and said 'bla bla bla I know know what i'm talking about. The smile dissapeared from his face for a moment and he looked down toward his chest. everyone froze they stopped laughing even though they all were still smiling. i think they were just as surprised as I was. He basically outed himself in front of all his boys and his girl. He paused for like 5 seconds and then played along with more jokes. But there was a glare in the back of his eyes like 'ahh shit what did I just say.' I was there frozen in that same smug position. His friends were there staring at each other smiling like 'what the hell'. Still, they all played dumb. He still hangs out with them last time I checked, so i guess they all forgot the incident or could care less.

After so many of these experiences in high school i figured that I am no longer part of a minority as I thought. I think the need for a deeper type of male bonding with guys is a primal part of our being that urging to come out of so many men, pardon the pun. from when we start off as boys and reach puberty til our adulthood. You can see it on the football field, rugby, locker rooms, homophobic jokes, the rampant lying. i think this message is important for all men gay/ straight and the ones in between (which is where most of them are).

I used to beat up on my self, had, that religion chock hold tug of war that most gay guys cycle though. I still believe in god though, I have to.

I also think the reason that the greeks and romans accepted homosexuality so much and we don't is because= Everything it stood for back then is the opposite of what it stands for today.

Greeks emphasized monogamy with male partners. Gay culture praises having as much fun as you can with as many guys while your young.

Homosexuality in Greece emphasized a part of masculinity and male bonding which still stands out in many sports today whether you can see it or not. Gay culture emphasizes bringing out the woman in all off us and praises queening.

Rome and Greece only practiced anal when they wanted to degrade an enemy after defeat. Gay culture praises anal. sometimes even fisting, bare backing, more emphasis on anus than penis.

The reason we see homosexuality as such a threat is because it threatens our male-to-male friendships, relationships, our society construct where men have to be strong (this goes for every social construct on earth) and it threaten our health and dignity (there is not much difference between manhood and dignity). in rome and greece it was the very opposite it was a streghthening of maleness and manhood, supplement to friendship, it was and still is safer to do frottage, actually safer than male to female sex when you think about it.

i think if we can make a dent in the image of this the stigma of gay culture it will become more acceptable. it's also real hard in the black community too. The stigma surrounding black men is that they are to be hard, thuggish, ultimate athlete, It almost an unrealistic perception of manhood. It's self destructive as it's hard for many men to just be themselves whether they are gay or as straight as an arrow.

it puts allot of pressure on black/ latino gay men to participate in some dangerous sexual practices just for temporary relief. Coming out is just not something you do in certain black families, especially highly religious ones. it's still seen as a white guy thing which is the stupidous view in the world. The proportion of gay/bi black/latino guys is the exact same trust me. Guys deal with it in different ways some get addicted to alcohol most get addicted to smoking weed. People act like their culture is immune to homosexuality but that isn't the case.

Their is plenty of evidence that homosexuality was just as much a part of greece as it was in africa, china, native american, polynesian, indian, and, Australian cultures ancient and modern: here's the link (scroll down to the part that says 'other cultures') really fascinating

I'm really glad i found your site Bill. I've been on it almost every day since I first found it. Its changed my idea about male to male sex in a big way. I look at guys in a different way now. No longer scared to try my luck and hook up with a dude, I realize i don't have to follow the anal route in order to be with a guy as I was coerced into believing.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Complete opposites


hi boomer

thank you for your very moving post

i'm glad the site has helped you

and i hope you're beginning to understand that things like the football/basketball scene you experienced aren't gay, they're just male

unfortunately, as you said, gay men have allowed themselves to be defined by promiscuity and anal sex, and it's going to be a lot of work undoing that damage

but that's the work we're all called to do

so i hope you'll continue to be true to yourself, and not let yourself be sucked into a "gay scene" which has nothing to do with homosexuality, and everything to do with internalized self-hate

and that you communicate these realities to other men



Re: Complete opposites


Hey guy.

Read your story on the postings, it was Really Great! I can "mostly" identify with what you were getting across, ergo, I'm actually White, and 24, but kinda similar..well, in some ways anyway!

I identify myself as "Gay", which means for me: That I am only attracted to str8 acting guys, and seek to engage sexually, in terms of cockrub, jo, wrestling, etc. AND NEVER GIVE/TAKE OF ANAL OR SIMILAR BULLSHIT.**

That's the way, I have ALWAYS FELT about stuff like Cock2Cock.* (C2C)* You'd be like, about, 10 years old, wrasslin with cousins/pals, THE feeling of locking down & the way you can feel the way he's hard and hot so close to you? You get hard just thinkin about it!

My feelings, though, were very pronounced at that age, even though I didnt understand, etc, so it made me be careful about doing stuff like that, if a guy just mentions stuff like horseplay, you'd get a hard on and then try and conceal it....but like..where you gonna hide it??!! But that stuff was the Best part of my Childhood anyway for me!

Similarly, I got a hard time in school, in terms of people testing you to see which way you swing, etc?

Lots of nasty comments and avoidance by people etc. All I can put that down to is weakness and unwillingness to stray from the social "norm" etc. If anything, Us Frot Dudes R more properly socialised than people like that, and those additionally, who live with their head up their asses, thinking that guys must never express themselves emotionally, whether with friends or whatever.*

I can definitely relate to the stuff about how a lot of "str8" guys you meet are very receptive to stuff like Cock2Cock, but feel they need to stick harshly to the "Str8" way of life, ergo women and acting a certain way, etc.

Which, is ironic in a totally dumb way! Str8 guys over trying to be masculine, not open and expressive about their feelings for their male friends, etc, nailed down to a regime of *Sports stuff* (vague macho ref!) and strictly acting in an over masculine way, just like the "Atomic Flamers" totally overdo the Femme stuff, and of course, anal receptiveness, etc.

Kinda ironic, huh?*

Like you, I have never had a *Boyfriend* and it's very hard getting by without a lot of self faith and hard work getting past all the Usual Gay Mechanisms and Vices, etc. (Feminine acting, drug taking, anal, etc)* I would always be very concerned, personally, about all the virus' and stuff you can get.

And of course, I was completely IGNORANT to stuff like Male2Male Transmissions of HIV, etc, never being taught anything like that in school, etc.

I would define my Faith as regards religion, as basically Christian, but I dont have ties to the whole Church/Catholic angle. I guess my "Faith" is just self belief and a clear understanding of my values and what they mean to me, etc*

I think, I realised I liked guys when I was about 15. Big guys did it for me every time!

Um..kinda, chubby/stocky guys, or the football/rugby type guys?

Oh, and I love KURT ANGLE! That's soo weird, cos I've asked loadza people, and they never usually have anything good to say about him!

But he's just SOO HOT! It's like he has, a perfect Body or something. But he's still quite masculine and he looks waay hot, even if it is all just theatrics (I'm not Dissing the sport, I admire the hard work and athleticism involved, etc), but some of it's kinda corny..

I can remember feeling REALLY CRAPPY & Depressed for a long time, until I found this site, it was such a life saver for me.

Being solely into masculine stuff like C2C, and str8 acting guys generally, amongst so many Flamers with all their usual crap and low 2 zero self esteem, made me feel totally worthless and pretty fucked up about life and relationships. I felt like I didnt belong anywhere, and I didnt feel attractive or anything else really for a long time..

It was such a relief to see so MANY guys, and who are Bi, "Str8", Gay identifying, etc,..who are all totally* into C2C and so forth, felt so great to know that I wasnt fucked up like i thought I was, just cause I was the only guy I knew in existence who likes that stuff??!!


I also admit that, that some of the stuff I've written HERE, was a bit savage, and since that time, I've become happier about life, and consequently, I strive to keep my postings less "extreme/radical", etc.


As, since that time, my esteem and self image has improved greatly, and I'm a lot more positive about life generally. It's tough going, you do get lonely and sometimes you would graciously take support over C2C anyday too.*

I think overall, the "GAY" experience has toughened me a little too much, but I'm just glad to be supporting this cause, etc.

Plus, I have a made a good friend overseas since writing here initially, and he's been an invaluable source of support and friendship, in the truest sense of C2C I would say.**

Well, that's my little speech for the time being anyhoo, hope you didnt fall asleep too soon! (wink)

Hope you find a guy who treats you like an equal & keep fighting for the cause, it's worth fighting for!!




Re: Complete opposites

Hey there,

I sympathize with you. I know its hard to be yourself and WANT to be yourself around others when they make it explicit that its a problem. Glad you have found this place to at least be communicatively honest. College provides a lot of opportunities to be explorative and see what things really do define you (both harmfully and beneficially) - but your not gonna learn anything if you don't take the opportunities, thats basically what I am having to deal with at this point. Its cool to figure out who you are, you don't owe anyone anything (accept maybe your family, depending on how that situation is) so don't worry about it. cool?


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