D'vorjakque

I Am Truly Fascinated and Enlightened

12-2-2002

I am a 21 year old college student who, after stumbling upon this site and summarily reading virtually everything on it, must say that I am absolutely fascinated. To start with let me say that when I first arrived at this site I did not even know what the word frottage meant. In fact, I arrived at this site by following several links starting at the 0 Holds Barred site, which decidedly depicts many acts of extremely unsafe sex. And just like I did not know what frottage meant, I had never before then given serious thought to such intimacy between males. I now do. What drew me to this site was specifically the reference to warriors and heroicism. And masculinity. These are 3 types of things that I sadly do not come across very often.

Let me clarify that my fascination with this site does not originate from any sort of hatred or aversion to anal or oral sex. These types of sex are without doubt considerably more unsafe than frottage, but having the desire for monogomous relationships, i.e. TRUE relationships, I am not all that concerned. For it is promiscuity that I believe is key to the spread of STDs.

What so fascinates me about this site is its endorsement of the true essence of masculinity, and its accounts of cultures and societies that embraced this masculinity whole-heartedly and without restraint. I.E., the Greeks and the Tokugawa era Japanese, for example. I can't even believe how much my understanding of the nature of homosexuality has been affected by all of this. My theory of the nature of sexual orientation has always been that there is essentially a kind of scale, whereupon people who are exclusively romantically attracted to members of the same gender are on the extreme of one side, and people who are exclusively romantically attracted to members of the opposite gender are on the extreme of the other side. As such, it has long been my conclusion that the vast majority of humanity, lying within the middle range of this scale, is actually bisexual in nature, with only the extreme ends being exclusively attraced to a specific gender. In the recent past of our current world, it was a society of almost exclusive heterosexualty. And this is without doubt becuase of the influence of religion, specifically what has been referred to on this site as the Judeo-Christian-Islamic juggernaut. Only those who were on the extreme end of the scale in the realm of same gender attraction dared reveal to the public, or even allowed themselves to realize, that part of them is attracted to and excited by the same gender. By contrast, looking at the Greek and Tokugawa societies in particular, there existed a culture of almost universal homosexuality. This did not arise from religion, but rather I believe from gender inequality. When in pursuit of a romantic partner, a man in such a culture who possessed no inhibitions whatsoever about same-sex love, would undoubtedly find a relationship with another man the most appealing, since unlike women, men were not socially and politically handicapped. Men were without question the superior gender in these societes, and so that factor made a male partner the most desirable type of partner for a man to have. Obvsiously, there is one thing wrong with our current society and one thing wrong with these older societies. In our current society, it is obviously homophobia. In the older societies, it is obviously gender inequality. Both of these things are very bad, to say the least. And after reading what this site has to offer, particularly in the historical sections and personal stories area, as well as doing a tremendous amount of my own research, I personally think that in an ideal world culture, free of ignorant prejudism and bigotry, people would be in essence bisexual. I think that at any given time, you would find about half of the people involved with a relationship with a member of the same gender, and the other half involved with a member of the opposite gender. Thus it is my theory that humanity as a whole, is bisexual.

Personally, I am all about masculinity. And when I look for a relationship, I am interested in having one that is all about just that. After all, the whole point about being gay is that you are attracted to guys. And guess what, that means that you are attracted to maleness, or masculinity. As such, it makes no sense to not be masculine yourself, since you are looking to have a relationship with a gay guy, who is himself attracted to guys, and thereby attracted to maleness, or masculinity. As far as actual sex is concerned, I like many and varied different types, including some of which are decidedly conduscive to STDs, however there is always one thing that is a must: That both partners be as equals. For it is pure male and masculine bonding that makes it truly exciting, and is the epitome of male homosexuality. The key here is bonding, which is what sex should be about, and what definitely makes is so satisfying. Not service, or domination, or submition, or humiliation, or anything else like that, but bonding. Erotic bonding as equals. And this site SO promotes truly masculine bonding, and I am totally drawn to it like a magnet to a piece of metal. In essence, I personally see the greatest kind of male homosexual relationship as one that is manogomous, equal, and masculine, from its surface all the way down to its core.

Thus these are my thoughts, and I have at last been enlightened enough to write them down in a coherent form, and one that is not just wishful theorizing, but that is greatly supported by history and the many testimonials of others.

Bill Weintraub

Re: I Am Truly Fascinated and Enlightened

12-2-2002

i'm glad that the site resonates so meaningfully for you in terms of its discussion of masculinity

however, in other areas your thinking is dangerously flawed

firstly, you write that you have "no aversion to anal sex" and go on to say:

As far as actual sex is concerned, I like many and varied different types, including some of which are decidedly conducive to STDs, however there is always one thing that is a must: That both partners be as equals. For it is pure male and masculine bonding that makes it truly exciting, and is the epitome of male homosexuality. The key here is bonding, which is what sex should be about, and what definitely makes is so satisfying. Not service, or domination, or submition, or humiliation, or anything else like that, but bonding. Erotic bonding as equals. And this site SO promotes truly masculine bonding, and I am totally drawn to it like a magnet to a piece of metal. In essence, I personally see the greatest kind of male homosexual relationship as one that is manogomous, equal, and masculine, from its surface all the way down to its core.

so, you say, "the greatest kind of male homosexual relationship ... is monogamous, equal, and masculine, from its surface all the way down to its core."

but in anal penetration, which you have pointedly not foresworn, the partners cannot be equals, nor can they be truly masculine

top and bottom, domination and submission, butch and bitch are all built-in to anal

nor is monogamy a hallmark of the culture created by anal penetration

indeed, one of the things i've said, which you should have noted in your exploration of the site, is that being an outsider -- as men into frot are -- confers clarity, and over the years what most of us have seen and witnessed to are the ways in which anal penetration creates a culture of promiscuity, effeminacy, inequality, and disease

for example, Chuck Tarver has written

I've never liked anal sex. I don't like how it feels, how it smells, how it complicates the lives of those who engage in it. How it spreads disease and psychological confusion. How it continues to shorten the lives of people I love. What I dislike most is the fact that it has become the expected 'ritual' among gay (men who have sex with) men.

"disease and psychological confusion" -- those are the two things which are most striking about gay male culture, and they stem directly from the prevalence of anal penetration

another of our warriors wrote "there's something about anal which diminishes people" -- he's right, and it's not mysterious -- that "something" is the degradation incurred by a form of "sex" defined by inequality, effeminacy, and feces

further, when you write that "As far as actual sex is concerned, I like many and varied different types, including some of which are decidedly conducive to STDs...", you need to think about where your tastes are likely to lead

it's true, as you note, that "promiscuity ... is key to the spread of STDs."

but what you seem not to understand is that men routinely lie about their monogamous intent and/or practice in order to obtain sex

for example, studies of date rape reveal that the two most common techniques used by men seeking intercourse with unwilling women are "persistent physical attempts" (about 50% of the time) and "the promise of a secure future long-term relationship" (about 40% of the time)

those same techniques are used by guys seeking anal sex from other men -- including from men into frottage

about half the time they'll push you down and try to enter you, and the other half they'll promise undying love if you let them fuck you

problem is that once you do, chances are they'll be gone the next day

so though your intent may be monogamous, it's impossible to know that your partner is sincere about monogamy too

that's why your choice of sexual act is so important

anal penetration can expose you to a number of fatal diseases

frot cannot

anal's dangerous, frot isn't -- and i'll keep saying so till the message sinks in

so -- while i appreciate that you like the pro-masculine aspect of the site, i will not permit you to so blithely separate our pro-masculine stance from our anti-anal convictions

for to do so would be to allow you and others to persist in a truly deadly denial -- one which constitutes a mortal danger to the health and psychological well-being not just of yourself but to all men who have sex with men

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