Grecian love



Grecian love


well not sure if that title is correct but here's the rundown:

recently I became friends with a guy I know at school. I get all the signals and everything like that and I fell for him time and time again, even though I kept thinking he was straight and all - but we crossed lines that "straight" guy's as friends don't, and I am not straight but his assumed identity is.

I don't think he's gay, and we didn't cross and really sexual lines - but our relationship is intimately, intellectually and personally sexual. I have really fallen for him and I can feel the same in him. But he is not gay, like his sex with girls and all that.

the lines we crossed were realyl lines he left open for me to cross, and I did - but with the misunderstanding that he was in the closet gay and that he wanted me like I wanted him. When really I didn't understand what he wanted or what was really going on with me. What he really wants is an intimate relationship with another guy - but not to be a boyfriend with because that defines him solely as gay and he is not.

As it is now, from what I can see - he is setting the tempo and I am setting the rythm. I have still fallen for him and although its not physically sexual, thats not really what its about. Its more an intimate appreciation of two men together without the social constrictions of two straight men (having superficial relationships asserting their heteroness) or two gay men in an exclusive relationship (which would not apply to him).

Now, while I would love to get it on with this guy (especially frottage, the slow is the more (and the better) its not my main goal and nor is it his of mine. Its different, very much like what many of us here speak of, that as men we want but do not allow ourselves or do not find. And the is unfortunate because it is really prevalent.

There is a tempo and there is a rythm. The alignment/syncopation can definately be found.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Grecian love


hi sebastian

in earlier times -- particularly the 19th century -- people wanted to believe that male-male love in archaic and classical Greece (776 - 323 BC) was "Platonic" -- that is, non-sexual

in reality, that's not true -- it was important to the Greeks to have sex with the guys they loved, just as it is to us

but it is true that the Greeks thought of love between men in very romantic and exalted terms

terms which we would do well to emulate

you can see that very clearly in Xenophon and Plato, who are on the reading list, and who were both students of Socrates

ironically, the idea of non-sexual, "Platonic" love between men comes from a purposeful misreading and mistranslation of Plato

the book that's on the reading list corrects that misreading by correcting the standard 19th-century translation -- which is still commonly used

now, regarding your own Grecian love:

you and your friend may or may not get it on

but you shouldn't assume that because he likes girls he doesn't want you

my lover really likes women -- a lot!!! -- but he also likes me -- a lot!!!

most men (and women) are to some degree bisexual

but our culture doesn't approve

so it puts people into little slots: /gay/ /str8/

those categories are phoney

if you buy into them, the danger is that neither of you will have the physical connection that you both want -- and need

i get a lot of email from str8-identified guys saying --

when i was young i had or wanted a frot relationship -- but then i got married and i suppressed those feelings and it's been 10 or 20 or 30 years -- and i still want to connect with another man in that way

but before i found this site, i didn't know i could

and i regret all those lost years

so sebastian: you and your friend may or may not choose to have sex

but you *can* have sex -- specifically, frot

and if you do he'll enjoy it

because it's genital - genital sex, and his body, like your body, was made to enjoy it

you can learn more about that by reading a photo essay just posted, What Sex Is

keep fighting SoldierSebastian, and remember


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