Ways of Making Love

The Cockster and Don F


Ways of Making Love


It just struck me ... reading through the posts ... remembering my own emails with Bill. What we are talking about here ... essentially ... is ways of men making love/(sex) with men.

For those looking from the outside in on this discussion ... of course they can categorize cocktocock with kissing, touching and fondling. As I have said elsewhere ... if a sexual encounter is a road to a destination ... then everything along the way is only a means to an end.

As Bill rightly points out ... what if our road is different to yours ? We see something different on our path than you do. Our physical interaction as men can be taken to climax. It is no passing fondle ... no intermitent frisson. it is an act of sexual intimacy ... a way of making love.

When dealing with safe sex organisations ... and the butt fuck dictatorship in general ... as I have said before lads ... gird your loins and your mind. If they don't get what you are saying the first time ... rephrase ... have a go again.

Bill is strident and clear and forceful in his approach. He is also precise and eloquent.

He's a good catalyst and that's what's vital here.

A cockrubwarrior championing his way of making love !!!




Re: Ways of making love


Right on. Cockster is correct that we must continually re-define what we're about here to the outside. There is a fine line here between having sex and making love.

Glory holes offer nameless/faceless sex. Buddies make love.

And, pardon the pun, but we seem to be pussyfooting around use of the word "intercourse" as it is traditionally understood to mean hetero copulation, or at the very least penetration of some kind.

Yet when buddies mate through their genitals, they share a masculine intimacy which can properly be considered intercourse. And, as Cockster said, not a preliminary or fleeting foreplay, but in fact the main event where sexual communion leads to climax.

At GayHealth and other sites, we had to break through the notion that frottage is not much more than a preliminary tease before something else begins. We have been categorized as a fetish, as juvenile, as "vanilla" etc.

Only when we proudly define male/male intercourse as genital sex do outsiders seem to understand that what we are talking about is true masculine mating.

Incredible that something so instinctive and natural should need such complex definitions and re-pharasing, but that's how it seems.

So for now at least, GayHealth woke up.

Making love wins another small victory.

Afterword from Bill Weintraub

Don F and I proved to be too optimistic about

They reneged on their promise to put up a page on "frottage" and have never done so.

However, Don makes a very important point in this message thread:

That we should use the word "intercourse" when we speak of Frot; and that "Only when we proudly define male/male intercourse as genital sex do outsiders seem to understand that what we are talking about is true masculine mating."


Penile-vaginal sex = genital-genital sex = male-female sexual intercourse = heterosex.

Penile-penile sex = genital-genital sex = male-male sexual intercourse = homosex.

Very important.

Male/male intercourse is genital sex is FROT.

Thank you Don and Mart!


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