tisoywrestler

Re: THRILLA IN MANILA

07-19-2005

True. I always thought the reason why AIDS hasn't spread so much in the Philippines (though we don't really know figures) is because of filipino guys who dislike anal sex.

But things have changed. Younger sex partners I've met have wanted anal sex - unprotected anal sex. :-(

This could be the start of an epidemic if not given proper attention and education. :-(

Bill Weintraub

Re: THRILLA IN MANILA

7-19-2005

Thank you ED and tisoywrestler

American popular culture has always had a global reach, and in an era of globalization, that reach has of course become greatly accentuated.

And that's another aspect of our fight here in America to defeat anal and promiscuity and move men who have sex with men -- MSM -- towards Fidelity and Frot.

Because there's no question that analism is now spreading to the educated urban elites in what were once called third world countries.

And with analism comes the threat of concurrent epidemics of anally-transmitted diseases, including HIV and hepatitis C.

Not to mention psychological and spiritual degradation.

Still, as ED says, the local MSM culture and its "old values" should not be entirely discounted, because in a country like the Philippines, it may have ameliorating effects.

Particularly if guys like tisoywrestler work to remind their countrymen of those old values and traditions.

In addition, when looking at the epidemic, we need to be clear about the difference between a "discrete" epidemic, and one which is "generalized."

Discrete HIV epidemics are what we have in the US, where the virus is found primarily within certain discrete groups, specifically gay men; intravenous users of drugs (IUDs); and "female sex workers" aka prostitutes.

For someone of my generation, just looking at that list is discouraging, since it's almost antediluvian -- gays have been lumped in with drug addicts and prostitutes for most of my life, starting back in the 50s when members of all three were said to suffer from psychiatric "personality disorders."

But in this instance gay men have no one to blame but themselves for the company they've been keeping.

IUDs are addicts, and often severely mentally ill.

Prostitutes too are often addicted, and usually extremely poor.

Gay men are neither.

The huge HIV prevalence among gay men is due to two voluntary behaviors -- anal penetration and promiscuity -- which the community could change if it so chose.

So far, of course, it does not so choose.

And it has paid and will continue to pay a terrible price for its intransigence.

Generalized epidemics, on the other hand, are those which affect most of the population, as in sub-saharan Africa, where AIDS is primarily a disease of heterosexuals.

Is the Philippines likely to experience a generalized epidemic -- will HIV "bridge" from the MSM community to the larger Philippine population?

Probably not.

As I noted in a previous post (see "It's the anal" on this board), I was privileged to take part in an email colloquy among some of the nation's leading AIDS epidemiologists, anthropologists, and other researchers on HIV and the Philippines in which this issue was discussed, and there was agreement that HIV is unlikely to take off in the Philippines because male circumcision (MC) is widespread there.

MC now appears to be the deciding factor in whether a country develops a generalized HIV epidemic.

The most recent study demonstrated that "circumcision reduced the risk of contracting HIV by 70 percent -- a level of protection far better than the 30 percent risk reduction set as a target for an AIDS vaccine."

Seventy percent is enormous, and explains why Islamic Africans have by and large been spared a generalized HIV epidemic, while Christian and animist Africans have been devastated by the disease.

In a society with poor access to medical treatment for ordinary STDs and virtually no MC, relatively low rates of hetero promiscuity can produce an epidemic -- and that's what happened in Africa.

But it isn't happening -- at least so far -- in the Philippines, and the reason seems to be MC.

For example, one group which is carefully monitored are truck drivers, since truck drivers travel and often use prostitutes. You can see the problem:

If a truck driver has sex with a prostitute in Manila, acquires HIV, and drives to Davao, where he gives the HIV to another prostitute -- there'll be an epidemic.

But if that truck driver is circumcised, his chance of acquiring HIV through vaginal sex is very low.

And if doesn't get HIV, he can't give it to anyone else.

So while Filipinos need to be vigilant, the Philippines is unlikely to experience a generalized HIV epidemic.

But Filipino MSM are at risk.

As are MSM who engage in anal in every other country.

American analists don't care.

While working with all their might and main to block our efforts to educate gay and bi men about the benefits of Frot, they continue to blithely export anal and promiscuity to countries which up to now had been spared their blight.

That's a remarkably vicious thing to do.

Men who love men face today two powerful and literally deadly enemies:

the analists, whose incessant proselytization for anal penetration and promiscuity has brought about the deaths of half a million American MSM and countless more across the globe;

and Christian and Islamic fundamentalists, who, as you can see in the message titled, "Iranians Execute Teen Frot Brothers," will, when they are able, not scruple to kill men who love men.

We're not talking here about a lifestyle choice -- we're talking about matters literally of life and death.

As always, I appeal to you to help us in our ongoing fight against these forces of evil by donating.

The analists and the religious right are very well-funded.

It's up to you whether we'll ever be able to say the same.

Fight back.

Save your life.

© All material Copyright 2005 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Minucawa

Re: THRILLA IN MANILA

08-09-2005

I do agree with ED that homosexuality is somehow part of Philippine culture. I prefer to use the term homosexuality/homosex because I'm not really comfortable being called "gay" here in the Philippines which is literally translated in Tagalog as "bakla" or "bading" as it gives a connotation of being effeminate, cowardly, sissy, transsexual, and somehow analistic -- which I am not and will never be, because I am a real man that just happened to like other real men -- masculine and noble.

What I do not agree with ED is that the colonial, post colonial, and modern Philippine culture, so much influenced by the West and the Abrahamic faiths (namely Christianity and Islam), is still alienating homosexuality. Yes, gays are accepted in the Philippine showbiz only as effeminate beings hosting talk shows to malign the reputations of other actors/actresses. But what happens when a heartthrob actor is found out to be a homosexual? He is ostracized. And the gay beauty pageants featured by local fiestas is only intended as a comedy for the barangay folks, it was never the kind of pageant for real women and or real men. The macho culture is still the primary culture here.

But sometime in the past -- in the pre-colonial and pre-islamic Philippines, there were tribes and even kingdoms (kaharian) that not only accepted homosexuality but somewhat part of the tradition - which is the initiation into manhood. It is believed in this practice that a young warrior will also acquire the prowess of an experienced warrior if he frot with him. This practice was replaced by circumcision ("tuli") brought by the Muslim Arabs and the Spanish colonizers. This is only a theory since most ritualistic and religious artifacts of the ancient Filipinos were destroyed by the Spanish colonizers, like what they did to the Aztec civilization. But, perhaps, there are remnants of that ancient warrior culture still thriving in the Philippines - mostly the indigenous peoples. I read an article about the Badjao tribe's initiation to manhood still continues today. But, I doubt modern Badjaos, which most of them embraced either Islam or Christianity, are still into it.

And speaking of promoting old values, I guess we still need to look more in our past, which was censured by the colonizing cultures of both the past and the present.

Minucawa

ED

Re: THRILLA IN MANILA

09-16-2005

Thank you Bill Weintraub for a very interesting and informative writeups, I am learning new things everyday from people like you.

I agree with tisoywrestler about his observations about the spread of AIDs in the Philippines.

Minucawa, the article that I wrote refers to a certain period in Philippine History as it relates to practice of frotting & the spread of of americanized gay culture which includes anal sex & other things. The question of homosexuality being accepted or not in certain part of the society is another thing.

Thirty years or so ago, The StoneWall riot in New York City started it all. What started as a protest against police brutality grew into a celebrations, the "culture" of celebrating "gay pride" all over the world.

That is the main reason that our website exist is to promote FROTTING as an alternative to ANAL SEX. There are many aspect of gay sub-cultures that exist, some people are in leather/fetish, bears, domination, and the mainstream white muscle circuit lifestyle that we see in everywhere.

Hopefully frotting will go mainstream in the near future so lets spread the word.

ED