No Fancy Lubes


Bill Weintraub

No Fancy Lubes


In What's Hot About Frot, the site's primer on dick2dick, I note that "Frot is natural and free, the way you thought sex would be when you were a kid. No rules, no role play, no props -- no condoms, no drugs, no fancy lubes. Just you and your best bud doin what cums naturally."

"no fancy lubes"

When I say something there's a reason.

Today some guy wanted to sell some pricey lubricant on the site which he claimed was a "pathogen prophilactic [sic]."

Problem: there is no such thing.

People who follow HIV news know that Bill Gates recently donated $60 million towards research to find a microbicidal and prophylactic lube, primarily for use among heterosexuals in places like Sub-Saharan Africa, where HIV infection is rampant.

Gates wouldn't be spending that sort of money if we already had that sort of lube.

At one time, of course, people thought there was a microbicidal lube -- it was called ForePlay, it was developed by Bruce Voeller, a chemist and gay activist and one-time head of the National Gay Task Force, and it contained nonoxynol-9, a spermicide which Voeller thought would kill HIV.

So it was marketed as a water-based lubricant to be used in combo with condoms during anal sex.

Many, of course, hoped that ForePlay would obviate the need for condoms.

And it was very popular: I doubt there was a gay man in America who didn't buy, and use, tubs of ForePlay.

They were ubiquitous.

Unfortunately, as we now know, nonoxynol-9 irritates the delicate lining of the anus and rectum, and renders both MORE susceptible to HIV infection.

It may also make users more susceptible to urinary tract infections.

Indeed, this year the media were full of warnings about nonoxynol-9, and I've pasted in a few below.

So what Bruce Voeller's very expensive concoction did, in the name of HIV prevention, was, most likely, get more people infected with HIV.

That's a cautionary tale:

If in order to have sex you have to put some expensive gunk on your dick -- you shouldn't be having sex.

The point to Frot is that, as I said, it's natural and free.

And I mean free in every sense.

Free of the strictures of the ButtFuck Dictatorship.

And free of free-market junk in the form of expensive chemical goo.

You don't need pricey lubes and you shouldn't be using them -- because not only are they not efficacious, but they're most likely dangerous.

I was in a serodiscordant couple (translation: my lover had AIDS) for 13 years, and, fortunately, we didn't use nonoxynol-9.

We used spit and baby oil, and I stayed HIV negative.

That's because unbroken skin is a formidable barrier to infection, and your best bet is to leave it alone.

Indeed, Dr. Edward Green has said that "the skin of the penis is armorlike."


The lesson of nonoxynol-9 is that putting some chemist's compound on your amorlike dick is not going to strengthen it -- actually, it's more likely to corrode it than anything else.

So don't start trying to improve on nature -- chances are you'll do just the opposite.

You and your body were designed to rub cocks, and if you do so reasonably and non-promiscuously, with a guy you know and can trust, all you'll get, as I've also said, is a good time.


Commerce and sex are not a good mix, and that's why this is a non-commercial site.

Yes, we now have a Donations page, and I hope more of you donate, so that we can reach more men with the good news about Frot.

And, not so tangentially, so that you'll have a greater pool of potential mates.

But -- that's not the same as trying to sell you stuff to have sex with that you DO NOT NEED and which may be dangerous.

I'll never do that.

God gave you and your buddy all that's required to have a great time with each other.

So while I'd like you to donate -- and while I believe that to give in that way is virtuous -- you don't have to.

Because this site, like FROT, will remain free.


Media articles about nonoxynol-9

Calif. Lawmakers Want To End Sale Of Spermicide Condoms

Health Groups: Spermicide May Increase Risk Of AIDS

POSTED: 6:21 a.m. PDT August 28, 2003

UPDATED: 9:56 a.m. PDT August 28, 2003

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES -- State lawmakers, health officials and some national health groups are calling on condom makers to stop using a spermicide they said may actually increase the risk of AIDS and urinary tract infections.

Citing several peer-reviewed scientific studies, the coalition is asking the federal Food and Drug Administration to order condom manufacturers to end production of condoms with nonoxynol-9.

Assembly Speaker Herb Wesson and Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, said three big condom companies had refused to meet with them and state health officials to discuss the issue. Wesson told a news conference Wednesday that condom manufacturers using the spermicide "must stop and they must stop now."

Wesson and Koretz were among nine state lawmakers who signed onto an open letter to the FDA, the companies and retailers. It also asks to stores stop selling nonxynol-9 condoms, saying, "Evidence now shows that the addition of Nonoxynol-9 to condoms and lubricants increases users' risk of contracting HIV-AIDS and urinary tract infections and provides no benefit."

AIDS Healthcare Foundation President Michael Weinstein and Sonja Herbert of the National Women's Health Network signed the letter along with 30 other national and local organizations.

The chief of the state Department of Health Services called on the FDA in a separate letter to require condom manufacturers to stop using nonoxynol-9.

The World Health Organization last year urged researchers to develop a microbe-killing chemical that could help women protect themselves from AIDS, saying a thorough review of studies of nonoxynol-9 found the widely used spermicide does not prevent HIV infection and may increase infection if used frequently.

Church & Dwight, makers of Trojans, said in a statement Wednesday that the effort to remove spermicide condoms from stores "could confuse consumers about the benefits of using condoms to reduce the risk of disease transmission and potentially reduce condom use" causing "significant public health consequences."

The company said condom makers are working with the government to revise labels of nonoxynol-9 condoms. Some condom manufacturers have stopped using nonoxynol-9, the only spermicide used in U.S. condoms. About a third of all condoms sold nationwide contain the spermicide.

Do you know about Nonoxynol-9?

Laurence Gibson

Positive Nation

9 July, 2003

Update: After the recent exposure that the lubricant nonoxynol-9 (N-9) could, potentially, be do more harm than good during sex, new guidelines have been released saying N-9 should only be used for vaginal sex - not anal. Whatâ?Ts more, N-9 should never again be used for the purpose of HIV, or any other STI, prevention. N-9 is still available over the counter, in the form of gels, foams and creams - and can still be used by women to improve the effectiveness of barrier contraception. It was recently found that N-9 can cause damage to the lining of the rectum, potentially increasing the risk of HIV transmission.

A large percentage of gay men do not know that the spermicide nonoxynol-9 (N-9) offers no protection against HIV and could even enhance transmission, according to a recently released study.

In autumn 2001, researchers from Centre for Disease Control in the US interviewed 573 homosexual and bisexual men in San Francisco, aiming to see if the men had absorbed warnings issued since 2000 by CDC and the World Health Organisation that N-9 should not be used during anal intercourse.

Studies have shown that N-9, a spermicide contained in some condoms and lubricants, offers no STD protection and destroys the protective lining of the rectum, which could allow HIV to be more easily transmitted.

Overall, 61%, or 349, of the 573 men interviewed had heard of the spermicide. Just more than half of the 349 had heard that it might not protect against HIV. Of the men who knew about N-9, 83% had used it, of which 67% had used it for anal intercourse in the previous year.

Of those who used it during anal sex, 41% did so without using a condom because they thought it would protect them against HIV transmission.

The study, "Rectal Use of Nonoxynol-9 Among Gay Men Who Have Sex with Men," reported in the journal Aids, said: "So even though they were hearing the message, it wasn't translating into behavioural change."

Unfortunately, the message doesn't seem to be getting through in the UK either. For instance, although fewer brands now use nonoxynol-9, a typical online condom site - - still describes Condomi Strong condoms as "lubricated with a special spermicide called nonoxynol-9 which has been shown to kill HIV and sperm on contact". Iin fact, Condomi have removed the nonoxynol-9 from this product.

Many condoms containing nonoxynol-9 still carry misleading names which are likely to make people think they're the best ones to use for anal sex. UK condoms currently containing nonoxynol-9, and which should not be used for anal sex, include:

Mates Nature, Ultra, Conform and Ribbed

Durex Extra Safe

Pasante Regular

Cool Duo

Safex Natural

Durex also makes a spermicide gel called Duragel, which should not be used as lube

Spermicide May Boost Risk of HIV Spread, WHO Warns

Jun 28, 2002

LONDON (Reuters Health) - Women at high risk of HIV ( news - web sites) infection should not use spermicides containing nonoxynol-9 because the chemical may increase the risk of transmission of the virus, the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned on Friday.

Instead, women who have multiple acts of intercourse daily should chose a different form of contraception, according to a report from experts convened by WHO and the CONRAD Program, based in the Eastern Virginia Medical School. Their report confirms other studies in quashing earlier hopes that the

commonly used spermicide could inactivate sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).

"Nonoxynol-9 clearly does not prevent HIV infection and may even favour infection if used frequently. There is an urgent need to develop a microbicide which can substantially reduce the transmission of sexually transmitted infections, including HIV, and which can be used by women," said Dr. Tomris Turmen, executive director of Family and Community Health at WHO.

"Women who have multiple daily acts of intercourse should be advised to choose another method of contraception," the experts conclude. They note however that nonoxynol-9 is better than no contraceptive method at all.

Nonoxynol-9 has been used as a spermicide for decades in vaginal gels, creams, foams, suppositories, sponges and films. Numbers of women of reproductive age using spermicides vary from less than 1% in Asia to nearly 17% in some Latin American countries, WHO said.

The report also states that condoms lubricated with nonoxynol-9 are no better at preventing pregnancy or stopping STDs than condoms lubricated with silicone. Since nonoxynol-9 may cause some adverse effects, the experts recommended that such condoms should no longer be promoted, but noted that "it is better to use a nonoxynol-9-lubricated condom than no condom."

For anal intercourse, research in mice and humans suggests that nonoxynol-9 causes "sloughing of sheets of (rectal) epithelium," suggesting that lubricant containing the product could increase risk of infection soon after use.

Don F

Re: No Fancy Lubes

9-12-2003 fancy lubes

It's another fundamental truth about frot.

For me, stuff like condoms and artificial lubes were always associated with some form of penetration so I never paid much attention to the hyped promotion of them because they seemed irrelevant to my idea of m2m sex.

As I found out in High School, and later in college, two buds are usually equipped naturally for everything they need for a c2c mating and the union of male climax---free, open and unrestricted by any sort of artificial containment.

No rubbers required.

And no artificual lube either.

Most, younger guys especially, find their bodies naturally produce all the lube they need for sensuous and erotic communion. It has always seemed that way to me anyhow.

My regular buddy in college had more than enough for both of us. When aroused, I think he'd start to lube the second he got a hardon 'cause invariably his briefs were wet in front when we got undressed. That natural male lube sure made for definately smooth gliding with out shafts and cockheads coated with it. Wowzer.

So score another cost-saving hit for frot, huh?

No artificial anything......just doin' what's natural is all it takes for buds to mate, easy and free.

The way we imagined as kids.

The way it should be.




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