mansense

Re: The Supreme Court, Sodomy, and Men Who Don't Do Anal

7-2-2003

Just wanted to say that I agree with you Bill. Guys who are not into anal penetration need to find ways to get past any coyness or reluctance about saying so. Face-to-face, heart-to-heart, cock-to-cock sex will always be seen as foreplay or fetish, rather than being synonymous with sex, unless we are honest and up-front and unashamed about the fact that we do it and that it is sex for us.

The overturning of these laws in the USA - and anywhere else where similar laws exist - is important, because overturning any laws that are opposed to equality and that legalise prejudice and bigotry is important. But many people are celebrating the overturning of these laws as a legitimisation of anal penetration, which they see as the only way to have true intimacy. I suppose that in one way it's exactly that, i.e. a legitimisation of anal penetration, and I agree that people should have the right to choose it if they want it. However I am wary about getting teary-eyed over this overturning, because the real oppression that has not been overturned is psychological, in the minds and hearts of all those who have been persuaded to buy into the idea that 'sex = anal penetration'.

The laws might be gone or going, but the mental shackles are still here. Unfortunately, overturning the laws of Texas and elsewhere may well give encouragement to what you call the Buttfuck Dictatorship. I hope instead that it gives encouragement to us all to free ourselves from the mental and emotional slavery that no legal authority can free us from. We don't have to wait for laws to be overturned, and no government is going to pass a law saying that d2d isn't a fetish or foreplay anyway, so there's no point waiting for someone to say its 'ok' or 'good' or anything else. Freedom is a choice that we have to make for ourselves, and it's a choice that more and more of us will make if we talk to one another and let each other see that there's another way to live and love.

guy

07-04-2003 01:44am

Re: The Supreme Court, Sodomy, and Men Who Don't Do Anal

I came out gay "late"...in 2001. Prior to that, I was in denial about being gay -- was married, had kids, and spent ten years coming to terms with coming out.

Ive been out two years and dated lots of men since then. Only ONE didn't want anal sex. By the second date, if I want to see the guy again , I feel compelled to say "OK" to anal sex even though I find it a sexual turn-off (some have been willing to 'wait' longer -- but always tell me I'll learn to 'love' it). Really it just seems impossible to me ... a choice between anal sex or no sex at all. What can I do!!!!

Bill Weintraub

Re: The Supreme Court, Sodomy, and Men Who Don't Do Anal

7-4-03

hi guy

1. first of all, never do anal "sex" -- you're putting yourself at risk for a number of deadly diseases in order to satisfy some guy you'll probably never see again:

he'll make you his bitch, give you a gift (HIV), and walk away

almost as bad, guy, is that every time you roll over for one of these men, you diminish yourself

how many times do you think you can do that before who you are vanishes into thin air?

make no mistake:

the Supreme Court overturn of the sodomy laws was not an endorsement of sodomy

it was a de-criminalization of consensual, private, adult sex

the analists are attempting to hijack that decision as they have everything else which has happened in the community for the last 30 years

and everytime you say "yes" to anal even though you don't like it, you become complicit in what they're doing

you say that you were married for 10 years and in denial about being gay

what that tells me is that you're very vulnerable to peer pressure

be clear about that and stop saying "yes" when you mean "no"

and when a guy says you'll come to "love" it, ask him what part of it you'll come to love:

the pain, the smell, the leakage, the shit on the sheets, or being treated like a woman when you're really a man?

2. don't have sex with "lots of men" -- you're not a whore, or a slut, or a pig

you're a human being and a man -- so be selective

pick and choose your partners and if the guy's into anal -- tell him goodbye

cause what you're doing right now:

anal + promiscuity = death

you're going to get sick and die

the failure rate for condoms in vaginal sex is 20% -- that doesn't mean they break 20% of the time

that means someone gets infected 1 time in 5 -- not great odds, and that's for *vaginal* sex

anal sex is a lot rougher on a condom

so -- start practicing Fidelity and Frot -- or plan on being one very sick queer

3. recognize that life is hard and that instant gratification is for sit-coms and action movies

in my own life, i struggled to come out

then i found myself in a gay world where men expected me to do anal

on the whole i didn't -- though i did it a couple of times for the same reason you have

the difference is that when i did it, HIV and HPV hadn't been discovered

you don't have that excuse

finally i met my first lover Brett

i told him i didn't do anal and he didn't expect it

he was a wonderful man -- bright, caring, compassionate

we had 6 wonderful years together full of passionate hot frot

then he was diagnosed with AIDS and i spent 7 years taking care of him as he became progressively sicker and grotesquely disfigured

then he died

i spent 5 years mourning him, and then i started The Frot Movement and these sites

through which i met my current lover -- another wonderful man

so guy:

life is not a walk in the park, it's not a broadway musical, it's not an HBO special

life is tough

but you've come this far -- you've acknowledged you're gay

now you have to acknowledge that you're a man into frot -- and not into anal

and witness for the simple truth that gay does NOT equal anal

where?

with your friends, with your colleagues, with men you meet online or in bars, on websites, in your local gay press, in your local mainstream press

if you do that -- you'll find the man you're looking for

because he's out there -- but he doesn't know you exist -- when he looks at you, all he sees is another fag with his butt in the air

you have to tell him that's not who you are

if you don't -- chances are you'll remain alone or enter into another marriage of convenience

that's how it is

i cannot change that for you

only you can change it

only you

Steve

Re: The Supreme Court, Sodomy, and Men Who Don't Do Anal

7-4-2003

While I applaud the Supreme Court decision, it got me wondering. In those states where sodomy was illegal, was frot also illegal? I don't know whether frot was "lumped in" with sodomy. I certainly don't think that there was anythng in the law that actually said that frot wasn't included. Anyway, I don't think anyone refused to do anything anal ONLY because it was illegal. I also thought it was quite amusing that the day after the Court decision was (at least here in Nevada) "AIDS Awareness Testing Day." Everyone who had legal anal sex on Thursday was supposed to get checked on Friday.

Bill Weintraub

7-4-2003

Re: The Supreme Court, Sodomy, and Men Who Don't Do Anal

Steve asked:

"In those states where sodomy was illegal, was frot also illegal?"

it varied from state to state

some states defined sodomy broadly, and some restricted it to oral and anal sex

the laws were vague, and often the definitions were not clear

Steve also said:

"Anyway, I don't think anyone refused to do anything anal ONLY because it was illegal."

maybe not recently -- though in the past those laws were actively and brutally enforced, some people went to jail, some people were sterilized, others were committed to psychiatric institutions, and many men (and women) were blackmailed by former partners and police

they were not good laws, and the havoc they wreaked on the lives of gay men and lesbians should not be minimized

however, the main use of those laws over the last fifteen years has been to deny homosexuals equal treatment and equal protection on the grounds that we're criminals

that can no longer be done

that's why the decision's important, and that's why it opens the door to gay marriage

so as a practical matter, most jurisdictions stopped busting people for sodomy some time ago

but gay people were still being denied equal rights because we were, in theory, felons

we are not any longer and that's a good thing

what isn't a good thing is the way the analists are hijacking the decision and making it appear to be an endorsement of anal sex

it's not -- it's a de-criminalization of consensual, private, adult sex

but what's going on is that in every news report i've seen, from the Washington Post to Fox network news, the terms "gay sex," "anal sex," and "sodomy" are being used interchangeably.

that's having the effect of greatly strengthening the identification of gay with anal

and only you can tell people that that identification is in error

one very important way to do that is to write letters to your local gay and nongay press

you don't have to write a long letter

you can write a short letter -- about 100 words

which says

I'm glad the Supreme Court threw out the sodomy laws.

But I'm a gay man and I'm not a sodomite.

The reality is that most men who have sex with men never do anal [or that sort of] sex.

Americans [or Britons or Canadians etc] need to understand that not all gay men are sodomites.

signed

your name

and give the URL of the site:

http://www.man2manalliance.org

if 2000 of you write a letter like that to your local paper today

the world will be a very different place tomorrow