Having spent some time reading the different posts I feel more compelled to share my thoughts and feelings m2m--if only online, it's a start. From what I've been reading, y'all are definately accurate in stating a true m2m revolution needs to occur.

My first frottage pleasure was with my older brother. We'd wrestle/roughhouse. We also slept in a double bed. That came to a silent, abrupt end when our mother came upstairs to 'remind' us it was time to sleep and discovered us with our pajama bottoms off. Without any words, my brother was sent downstairs and we ceased to go to bed at the same time and single beds were introduced. We stopped wrestling and although nothing was said between us I started to feel he was angry with me; footballs thrown harder, critical of things I attempted, subliminal messages of stay away. (never really had an opportunity to talk to him m2m he died in Vietnam). I do recall just liking to steal glances of him and his friends changing into their trunks and I couldn't wait to grow body hair and 'fill out' like them. Eventually I'd jo'd fantasizing 'frottage' (ha...little did I know).

Nothing was ever said but I knew my feelings. With religious instructions (very religious upbringing) and familial/societal mores, I knew males don't have such feelings nor ever to acknowledge them publically---tabu subject area.

Thanks for the suggestion to read Luke's Beatific . It reached a cord that has too long been forgotten. Something about that first youthful love- blissful in its innocence. Luckily my first sexual encounter with my best bud was a gradual development. Instead of hunting we hiked in nature and through the weeks and months of that 13th summer we quite naturally discovered pleasure from each other. Our bodies on alert to slight touches of leaves and wind on our naked bodies as we hiked to the watering hole to skinny dip and then the fierce tenor of our muscles as we struggled to pin the other down when wrestling, yeah even cock dueling was tried. Feelings were never discussed; there was a deep trust, mutual respect, and it was definately love for I thought of him constantly and couldn't wait to be around him. He or I having different girlfriends was never discussed and seemed again just as natural. School pretty much separated us; I took more college oriented courses and he vo-tec. I played sports, ran track, wrestled, skied and he played guitar in a band. He dropped out of school to join the Marines and I went on to college. We shared beers years later but never discussed our youthful explorations.

I did have other friends with whom I JO'd with but it wasn't the same not did I want it to be. One friend was quite effeminate, (slight, pretty) but I had no interest in anything sexual with him even though we did skinny dip and spent time camping out we were never sexually inclined to share with each. After he'd returned from his first semester in college in NYC he openly declared his homosexuality to me, it had no effect on our relationship. I recall asking what he did with other men and he told me he got fucked up the ass. I asked him if it hurt. Basically I had no interest in hearing of his exploits in that area. It was the 70's, 'different strokes for different folks'

I have to admit a few years after when I was studying in Paris and was quite lonely, quite drunk. I befriended a Frenchman who wanted me to fuck him and I did. I found it not at all to my liking and thought it offensive and offended. Our friendship didn't last long. He was more effeminate and if I couldn't have a women then I definitely wanted a straight up cock2cock man relation. Oddly enough I found one when visiting Rome. It was with a seminarian and although it was comfortably m2m, the babble of Christian love wasn't part of my vocabulary. Love is love whether male or female, Judeo-Christian, Hindu, Buddist. Ye know it when ya feel it.

I've been happily married 25+ years, with grown kids etc. I don't know but it is truly hard to open up to other men I find attracted to in a m2m way. Although I have a good athletic body and keep in good shape even at 50, when I have opened up a few times to men who I thought I could have a long term m2m relation I get told I'm a gay, faggot or that I should seek help. My haiku in this regards seems to me apropos:

******

what I like about haiku is that it is better when only said/heard because I also mean it to be interpreted:

*******

Okay, I'm revealing too much of my 'feelings'.

Thanks for allowing me to express. It's better than writing it on paper and then burning it to the winds.

Ciao!

Bill Weintraub

Re: Beatific Response: a true m2m revolution needs to occur

9-29-2003

hey roe

thank you for your wonderful post

i'm sorry you've had problems when you've told guys about your feelings

but that doesn't mean you should stop trying

while i don't think anyone can script that for you --

the straight-identified guys who seem to do best are the guys who have allowed friendships to evolve from "just friends" to "cock2cock buds"

so what you can do is open yourself up to the possibility that other men whom you know, whom you see every day, are like you

guys who are married, even happily married, but who have cock2cock needs and desires

if you do that, sooner or later you'll connect

and there's something else you can do:

Roe, you said "y'all are definitely accurate in stating a true m2m revolution needs to occur"

you can join that revolution and actively aid us in this fight

because we know that there are literally millions of guys who share your feelings

but they're afraid to express them

so we need to get our message out -- we need to let other men know that being with another man cock2cock isn't "gay"

we can tell them

that vision is of an Alliance, and of Heroic Homosex, and of men loving other men as men

and i know we can bring that to pass -- i think if you refound your HS bud, and asked him if he remembered your wrestling and cock dueling, he'd tell you that not a day or a week or a month has gone by that he hasn't thought of them

so -- go to our Warrior Titans page.

read what other people who have donated have said

and think about how different your life and the life of your kids and of everyone you know could be if we got out the truth about men, and sex, and love