BRUCE

Re: i felt so alone

3-11-2004

AFTER READING THAT STORY,I TOO, THOUGHT I WAS ALONE. MY LOVER AND FREIND OF 5 YEARS ,WHO I THOUGHT WOULD BE MY LIFE PARTNER, LET ME DOWN HARD. I COULD MAKE LOVE TO HIM MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT WAS TOLD THAT IF I DIDN'T "GIVE IT UP", THAT HE WOULD GO ELSEWHERE TO FIND IT. UNFORTUNELY, THIS HAS SINCE HAPPENED. NOT DOING THE"ANAL" THING ,DOSE NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS OR MORE OF A MAN.A MANS LOVE FOR ANOTHER MAN IS AND CAN BE SO STRONG. I JUST WANT TO LOVE AND BE LOVED. HOW HARD CAN THAT BE? THANKS FOR GIVING ME THIS OPPORTUNITY TO "VENT".

BRUCE

Bill Weintraub

Re: i felt so alone

3-12-2004

Hey Bruce,

Thank you for your post.

One of the things it's very important for guys to understand is that anal didn't used to be at the center of gay life -- that its primacy is very recent:

Is Gay Sex Trying Too Hard To Be Straight?

That's a brief article I wrote for a Canadian online zine more than two years ago.

And I wouldn't change a word of it, except at the end, where I say about this site that on it:

"you'll find first-person, true-life accounts about being into frot from close to a hundred guys like yourself."

What's changed is that we now have about a thousand of those true-life accounts.

What hasn't changed in more than two years is the attitude of most of mainstream gay male culture and the bottomboyz who run the gay male media -- venues like 365Gay and gay-dot-com.

Because to this day they won't allow consideration of the idea that sex doesn't have to be anal to be gay -- or meaningful or powerful or expressive of the love that two men might have for each other.

My last op-ed in the gay press appeared in October of 2003, when there was a lot of concern, as there should be, about rising HIV and other STD infection rates:

Rethinking Gay Sex

I offered that piece to a number of other gay papers, but it was only picked up by two -- one in SF and the other in Minneapolis.

No one in NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly, Miami, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Tuscon, Portland, Seattle, Toronto -- you get the picture -- would run it.

What that means, as I've explained to the guys on this site repeatedly now, is that if we're going to get out the word about Frot and about men who don't do anal, we're going to have to do it ourselves.

Which means raising money and buying advertising.

Because I've been doing this for more than three years, and while I don't doubt we've had an impact, we're not even close to reaching the number of men who need and are eager to hear our message.

And if we continue to rely on the kindness of editors at places like 365Gay and The Washington Blade and the New York City News, we'll never reach those men.

Fact is those editors are implacably hostile -- just as hostile and pig-headed as Bruce's ex, and just as convinced that it's their sacred duty to defend that bizarre act of simulated sexual intercourse known as anal penetration:

In which most "gay" men get to pretend their anuses are vaginas while a few other "gay" men get to stick their dicks in holes full of shit.

It's a sort of mass hysteria which, if it didn't fall so heavily on guys like Bruce and Chris and the rest of us, would be amusing to behold.

So what happens next is up to you -- the person reading this post.

We have a Donations page

DONATE

and it's quick and easy to donate.

Some guys have donated -- you can read about them here -- but the overwhelming majority of "men" who visit this site -- have not.

To be exact, of the 100,000 + putative males who visit this site every month, less than 40 have donated.

I wonder what the other 99,962 of you are thinking.

Cause one thing's for sure: do nothing, and nothing will change.

You know that the religious right and the Bush administration won't help you.

The response of the Bush administration to gay marriage -- which is, on the whole, a genuine and grass-roots upwelling of people who want nothing more than the right to commit to each other for the rest of their lives -- is to attempt to squash it like a bug -- a noxious insect.

And make no mistake, as the President likes to say, that's not because these folks want to be faithful -- it's because they want to be faithful to people of the wrong sex.

That's bigotry.

And it's very destructive.

So: the religious right won't help you and the analist left won't help you.

That's the bad news.

The good news is there are hundreds of thousands of men just like yourself -- far more than any of you realize -- and all of them potential allies.

All you have to do is reach out to them.

Still not convinced?

Think of it this way:

This site is the perfect instrument of your liberation.

All you need do is pick it up -- and use it.

Robert Loring

Re: i felt so alone

4-06-2004

Chris and Bruce if these guys decided to leave you because you wouldn't "give it up" then, perhaps, that was the best thing to happen to both of you. At least you maintained your ground and your male dignity.

In any relationship where there is a partner who wants to force something on you against your will it must be realized that such is not a relationship at all. What it is is usuary! Such a partner is very selfish and is out for their own interests without regard for yours.

There are men who will love you just for being you and who will respect your desires and not force you to do something you do not want to do. Respecting your partner is a major piece in any relationship between any gender. Lasting relationships are marked by self-LESS-ness not by self-ISH-ness.

Sir Robert

DCNATIVESON

Re: i felt so alone

6-16-2004

Once again, I too felt like I was all alone. I finally acknowledged my homosexuality when I was 23. I had my first adult gay experience and it was all frottage. I had conferred with a "mentor" and was told that black gay/bi men love to f*ck and that my activity might be limited if I didn't engage in one or the other. Mind you he was not ordering me but rather giving insight based on experience. I vowed that I would not participate in such activities as I found it disgusting, a crude simulation of vaginal sex and an act that could lead to possible STD infection. Of course this made me something of a sexual outcast; a loner. My minority was crushed by the "cultural tyranny of anal sex".

When guys found out that penetration was "not my thing" they disappeared faster than the speed of light. They would not even consider a rendezvous unless there was some expectation of anal sex. I was miserable. I was disenchanted and disenfranchised. I had thought that after years of feeling like I was "different", accepting my homosexuality meant that I had entered a brotherhood when I would attain a sense of belonging. I was never more wrong. I was even more alone. Men asked me if I were even gay. They assumed I was bisexual because I did not partake in penetration. I was persecuted for my sexual practices and beliefs, harmless though they were. I was told on many occasions that I would "never" find anyone to be with me unless I engaged in passive or aggressive anal sex. What I did was considered "silly" . . . "nonsense" . . . "foolishness". "I would never be happy." But my stubbornness would persist.

Well, I tried being a bottom twice at 24 and found it excruciatingly unpleasant! I felt like I had been literally torn a new asshole and bled. It took me months to heal from the trauma. I tried being a top twice as well. Although I enjoyed the tight fit I still felt somewhat unsatisfied. Was this all there was too penetration? Getting hard, insertion, harsh friction and ejaculation? It can be so impersonal sometimes depending on the position of the partners. It just left me feeling kind of empty and wanting for more. I have always been more into foreplay: kissing and other oral pleasures, stroking, petting and frottage. I have found a few people willing to frot for a short time but they always wanted more that I was willing to give. "Sex isn’t sex without penetration." I found a group on a popular website that advocated frottage and thought I had again found a brotherhood but there was not enough interest being generated in the group (or perhaps no one was interested in me) and more than a few kept slipping in desires for anal sex. Disenchanted, once again, I left. I came across this site by chance when I clicked a link on someone’s web page. Again, I am filled with the notion that I have truly found a Brotherhood here. This sight is more developed and quite informative. It is well established. I am not knocking the act of penetration or those that engage in it. I do, however, think that my practices are just as valid and deserve as much respect and consideration as any other. I am glad I found this group and look forward to watching it flourish.

DCNATIVESON

Bill Weintraub

Re: i felt so alone

6-20-2004

Hi nativeson,

Thank you for your excellent post.

Unfortunately, most of us have had experiences like your own -- that is, of being both pressured and rejected by our gay brethren.

I want to comment on a few things you said:

"I had thought that after years of feeling like I was "different", accepting my homosexuality meant that I had entered a brotherhood when I would attain a sense of belonging. I was never more wrong. I was even more alone."

That's a very common experience of men into Frot.

Basically, there's a natural history to the lives of Frot Men, as we're now calling ourselves, which is easy to trace.

1. Their Frot fantasies and desires usually start in pre-pubescence.

2. Those fantasies and desires are of course greatly heightened y the onset of puberty, and during that time, if they're lucky, they have Frot experiences with a buddy or lover.

3. If they're straight-identified, they learn, as they grow older, to suppress and hide their dick2dick desires, and they find sex, very satisfying sex, with women.

But they don't lose their interest in Frot -- they simply suppress it, figuring that it's not shared with any other adult men.

4. If they're gay-identified, they have a much rockier road to travel, as did you.

For after going through the trauma of coming out, they experience further trauma when they're rejected by their new gay "family."

Faced with yet more rejection, Frot guys do one or more of the following:

1. Go along to get along, and do anal even though they hate it.

2. Become celibate.

3. Return to the closet and marry heterosexually.

4. Refuse to do anal and stay true to themselves, and endure a lot of loneliness and obloquy as a result.

What's important to understand is that one of the reasons analists are able to pressure guys into doing anal is that desire for "belonging" which you spoke of -- gay men are extremely susceptible to that sort of pressure, because coming out has usually meant the loss or erosion of other support networks, such as family, church, and nongay friends.

So they're very vulnerable to pressure from their new gay peers to do anal.

And, aside from the nastiness of anal itself, that's what makes that pressure so cruel -- that it's directed by gay men at guys who are vulnerable because they too are gay.

"I found a group on a popular website that advocated frottage and thought I had again found a brotherhood but there was not enough interest being generated in the group (or perhaps no one was interested in me) and more than a few kept slipping in desires for anal sex."

There are really great guys on this site and in The Man2Man Alliance, and you'll learn who they are.

There are also men who sneak in here from time to time, who are into anal, and who think it's okay to invade our space and solicit shit sex.

It's not.

If someone solicits anal penetration through this site and particularly through Frot Club, please let me know.

We are a site for men who do NOT do anal penetration.

Anyone who solicits anal will be thrown off the site.

"Disenchanted, once again, I left. I came across this site by chance when I clicked a link on someone's web page."

It's too bad it was by chance -- that's because we don't have the money to do outreach and the gay press has pretty well frozen us out -- but it's great that someone put up a link -- that person deserves our and your thanks.

"Again, I am filled with the notion that I have truly found a Brotherhood here."

Yes. Just remember it's the internet.

Some -- I hope most -- of the guys in here are your brothers -- and you'll find out who they are.

"I am not knocking the act of penetration or those that engage in it."

Why not?

You and your practice, which is far safer, more pleasurable, more masculine, and more intimate, were attacked repeatedly by analists.

When I first started writing about Frot and anal, I too was conciliatory toward men into anal.

I quickly discovered -- actually the day my first article was published -- that they would not be conciliatory towards me or Frot.

I've been a gay activist for more than 32 years.

The personal attacks and the distortions of my work made by analists are far worse and more numerous than anything I experienced from straight people in the early years of Gay Lib.

That's saying a lot.

Fact is that there's a lot wrong with anal penetration and NOTHING right about it.

And there's no reason not to say so.

And to encourage guys to stop doing anal.

If you look at the Chuck Tarver's post titled The price of maintaining the anal sex norm you'll see a long list of physical ills, taken from a very pro-anal "gay health" website, caused by anal penetration.

I have no problem telling men they should stop doing anal.

Just as I have no problem telling men they should stop being promiscuous.

Anal promiscuity has left the gay male community riddled with disease.

HIV prevalence alone among gay men in America, the richest and most medically sophisticated country on earth, is as high as it is in desperately poor countries in Africa like Zambia -- countries in which medical care is almost non-existent.

That fact should have, long ago, shocked every gay man in America into a re-examination of gay male sexual mores and morals.

That it has not is indicative of just how self-loathing most American gay men are.

The health of their fellow gay men is less important to them than the whorish behavior which is dictated, ultimately, by a homophobic straight culture and supported by its gay bottomboy allies in the ButtFuck Dictatorship.

"I do, however, think that my practices are just as valid and deserve as much respect and consideration as any other."

Nativeson, in terms of sex, in terms of health, in terms of masculinity, in terms of pleasure, and in terms of intimacy, your practice is valid; theirs is not.

"I am glad I found this group and look forward to watching it flourish."

Thank you; we're glad you're here too.