fucked up



fucked up


Just for giggles and grins here, you know what is one thing that REALLY PISSES ME OFF?? (Say yes, okay?) Ya know, it's hard trying to meet guys period. Bars are such awful venues to do that and I don't drink hardly at all, just a bit, but not enough to hang out in a bar for long. And I get edgy and bored really quickly. So the online thing (although frought with lots of dangers) is really the next best thing I guess. So here's the deal .... you go to a dating site. TONS of guys registered... some looking for sex, some for ... whatever, a FEW maybe relationships. So you take the plunge and decide to create a profile. You get through all the statistics .... and then you always hit THE question.

Top or Bottom? Or Versatile?

HUH? Unforuntately, I don't fit into ANY OF THOSE. They push you into a category that ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T APPLY!! How fucked up is that?? It makes me really nuts. I am not a Top. I am not a Bottom. AND I am not Versatile. I DON'T DO ANAL. HOW HARD IS THAT??

But they just push you in that direction. I go meet some friends on Fridays early at a bar in Silverlake to shoot the shit and just chill from the stress of the week. You should hear these guys.... "Oh, he's SUCH a big ole bottom!" and "Oh he THINKS he's a top, but I've got news for you...." GOOD LOWERD!!

It just makes me ill. We're ALL just Tops or Bottoms in their world. And if you try to explain that anal DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU.... they get this funny look in their eyes and then just dismiss you thinking, "Hmmmm, I guess he doesn't know if he's a top or a bottom yet." OR even, "He just hasn't met a good enough Top to teach him what being a Bottom is all about!"

And it is SOOOOO easy to hear the negative connotation that "Bottom" has. EVEN THOUGH.... to play the anal game.... one can't BE A TOP, UNLESS THERE'S A BOTTOM. It's so clear to me that there must be BOTH for it to work. Yet, one is held in MUCH LOWER REGARD!!! How fucked up is that?

I'm sorry to go off like this and rant and rave and carry on but... it's really difficult to find like minded individuals. I'm pretty much a mutual masturbation and oral oriented guy. That's what I like. And I'm GAY, meaning I like having sex with men. But mostly I like having sex with a man that I KNOW, and a man THAT I LIKE, and once I find that guy HE'S THE ONLY ONE I WANT. I was in a monogamous relationship for 18 years. It can happen. It can work. And it's wonderful.



Re: fucked up


I hear you brother.

It is very hard to find people sincere and really into cock2cock and not just using it as a way to get to the usual top vs. bottom crap.

I know also that the usual stereotypical "don't give up" doesn't always cut it.

I guess I'm just here to tell you that there are indeed people who feel the same way you do. It's just that we have been shamed by the mainstream into keeping our view to ourselves.

Hell, almost a year ago the only way I found this site was when someone else posted a link to the site over on and it got a bunch of those queens feathers all upset - along the lines of things you will read on this site - basically that frot was a fettish or that it was not possible to have a fulfilling experience with frot. All of those things are totall bullshit.

Some of the best sex I have had has come from frot or mutual masturbation.

Don't give up the fight.



Re: fucked up


Hey Tom, I totally identify with you frustration about having to pick between top, bottom, or versatile as options when creating an online profile. I've tried stating clearly in the comments section of my online profile that I'm looking for j/o (soon to include frot) but I still get so many hits from dullards who want to know if I'm a top or bottom - It makes me fucking crazy! There have been times when I've responded forcefully and rudely because I reached the boiling point. Of coarse that tends to go nowhere and only guarantees a bitter response. So what are we to do? I suggest we all begin writing to these websites and insisting that they include a category for frot, frottage, or fronting. Hopefully if enough of us do that we can get some results. In the meantime keep the faith, know that you are respected and among friends here, and live well!


Bill Weintraub

Re: fucked up


Thank you Dave.

You're right that Tom is among friends here, so the question becomes -- what are you guys doing on those other sites?

Because you're not among friends there, you're among a lot of men into anal who've bought into everything the Butt Fuck Dictatorship has to say, and who won't understand you in a million years.

Not at least without significant cultural change, which can't happen on those sites alone -- if at all.

Here's what I recommend.

It's a bit of a mixed message, or actually two messages, but I'm hoping that people will be able to tell the two apart:

1. Regarding the big gay sites like gay dot com or out in america where some of you may have profiles:

While you're on those sites, I strongly encourage you to use the word "Frot" or cock2cock etc in your profile and to either include a link to the Alliance homepage -- -- if that's allowed (out in america for example does allow it); or to simply say that you're a member of The Man2ManAlliance / HeroicHomosex.

Doing the latter is really important -- it's as important as donating, and that's saying a lot.

2. However, although I agree there should be more choices on those drop-down menus than top-bottom-versatile, I won't allow the use of the word "Frot" by a commercial site.

You can petition a site like gay dot com to use the word "frottage," or "cock2cock," or "d2d," but not "Frot," which I coined and on which I hold the copyright.

Because I don't want the word used in ways which I didn't intend and don't support.

The term Frot is reserved for men into phallus on phallus who don't do anal, and I will keep it that way.

A commercial site like gay dot com will not make that distinction.

So: you as a private person with a profile on a site like gay dot com are free to use the word Frot; and I encourage you to put it in your profile -- along with a link to or mention of The Man2ManAlliance / HeroicHomosex.

But gay dot com itself and similar sites are not free to use the word Frot for a commercial end.

Now, I started out by asking -- what are you doing on those other sites?

And that's the really important question.

Because, basically, I think that those of you who hang out on those big mainstream gay / analist sites are foolish.

I understand the attraction -- those sites have a lot of guys, they display a lot of flesh, and they have some features, such as internal email, which we could have too if we had the money.

And that's the crux of the matter.

If you guys would put your energies -- and some money -- into this site, instead of wringing your hands over the failure of the analists to be nice to you, you'd have here the same stuff you have on the big gay / analist sites -- AND you'd have the knowledge that the men you meet on here are into Frot, not anal, and aren't going to stick a finger laden with who knows what pathogens up your butt the first time you make out.

So as I said, I'm certainly not opposed to your putting up a profile on those big sites and listing Frot as your preference and giving the URL of The Man2ManAlliance / HeroicHomosex -- to the contrary, that would be very helpful.

But the vast majority of men on those sites are analist, they are very promiscuous, and, as I tried to clue you to in Why Be Faithful?, many of them are harboring STIs -- wittingly or not.

Do you really wanna have sex with those guys?

I don't.

Of course I'm partnered, but even if I weren't, when I read the profiles on those sites, my blood runs cold.

Not only are those guys into anal, but like their subculture, they're in major denial about STD.

Guys, promiscuity remains the greatest problem among gay men, and the danger as I've always seen it, is that as Frot grows in popularity and acceptance, Frot men will join the promiscuous crowd.

Which the internet is facilitating.

Why is that bad?

Because promiscuity creates disease.

More specifically, it creates niches which pathogens evolve to fill.

And Frot isn't immune to that process.

It's a less likely vector than anal -- because anal penetration enables a pathogen to be injected directly into the blood of the receptive partner.

But there are other ways for bugs to get around.

And I'm particularly astounded when I see guys on this site or other Frot sites trying to organize group sex get-togethers.

Doesn't anyone read?

MRSA, which was in the news again just a couple days ago, and which I describe in Why Be Faithful?, isn't even an STD.

Rather, it's a disease of groups and crowding -- athletic teams and prisons and hospital wards.

But it's passed by skin contact, it's highly contagious, it's already appeared in "party groups" of gay men, and it can be deadly.

If five of you get together to rub cocks, and one of you has MRSA, within moments all of you have it.

And when you go home, you give it to your partner or your wife, and/or the next guy you rub with.

And because it's not an STD, it can actually be transmitted via the proverbial toilet seat.

Which means that if you use the toilet and your kid follows a few moments later, you've given it to your kid.

Great, huh?

And if a pathogen like MRSA evolves to find something in the pubic area, let's say, particularly welcoming -- the pH, the temperature, pubic hair -- then you begin to get a pathogen specific to Frot.

The only way to stop this process is for Frot men to not be promiscuous and to shun men who are -- particularly those opportunistic analists whose bodies are already harboring multiple strains of HPV and other STIs like chlamydia.

Otherwise it's an inevitability that a pathogen will emerge to fill the niche that *you* -- yes, that means you personally -- will have created.

So, as I've told you for more than four years, your future is in your hands.

It's always been there.

If you continue to be promiscuous and if you tolerate the promiscuous men among you, you will destroy the innocence of Frot.

If you see gay male promiscuity for what it is -- a social experiment which has failed -- and draw back from it -- you have a chance to preserve Frot as it is now and as it should always be.

And if you stop putting energy into the big analist sites and start putting your energy into this site -- which means parting with some money, but you need to get real -- there is no free lunch -- gay dot com is basically feasting on your bones, and it's high time you figured that out --

If you start putting energy and money into this site, you can have what you want in terms of being among like-minded men.

And in the process find what you deserve: an exclusive and mutual love.

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