Re: a road of hell: my soul is pretty much dead

6-12-2008

second email -- "the soul is pretty much dead"

thank you for such prompt replies, especially when you have many things to do. sorry i've been so slow, I'm afraid I'm in a bit of a bad state.. After about 9 years since starting to use the net, (not to mention all those prior) filling nights online for nothing else to do, no one to share, bored as, with the usual soul destroying experiances, the soul is pretty much dead, as is motivation. most things are a struggle, with little to aim for. Kinda been like a shot up plane, unserviced, circling around in fog, barely still flying, waiting to get radio clearance and the break on the clouds to land at 'home', so to speak. but there's no one on this radio wave length, so its been a case of circling until the fuel runs dry and crash. Right now I'm running on the remaining fumes. Away from that analogy, I really have a struggle to bring some drained emotion and feeling back, enough to write, without sounding flat, or in many cases just plain weary that i cannot even concentrate. Another anology is like a battery that's been having ther energy taken but not replenished, and I'm flat.

It sounds like you have plenty of trials as well. I'm most sorry to hear about your partner with early Parkinsons, after the loss of the last one, through Aids. the first guy I ever dated, back in 1987 died of the same in 2001. Right now, the only person i am close to in any manner is HIV+. But he lives on the other side of the world, in France. He's wonderful company, and we did cuddle each other in the all too short span of time i spent with him for a week and a bit last year. the chemistry isnt full power, but I could live with him, such a nice person.. But he wouldnt be allowed here, and i couldnt stay in France. he's too far away to have any effect. I'm seeing if i can fly over there for a while soon, not sure yet as i currently have shortage of money, and health problems with kidneys. It's a tricky one, as he's ok with just being frinds, resigned to his HIV, but i can't bear the thought of this human soul one day being sick, and dying, alone. Yet there's no allowable way i could stay there. He has few friends, as he largely got prejudiced by his friends.

I guess so far a lot of this has gone over my head, with so many years of not a lot, it kinda seems too good to be true to suddenly get the concept that theres guys out there who think, and more so, feel as i do.

Anyway, I'll respond to you same as you have me, through the email, makes it faster indeed.... latest one first.

Paul:

I've had a quick look, and indeed i took a careful read, will answer asap. All i can say is again, its relatable. Cant understand tho why guys with the gay gene

Bill:

Okay.

There is no gay gene.

There are just guys.

Guys have sex with guys.

Always have, always will.

What you're experiencing is the end result of an historical process we call heterosexualization;

which has marginalized and ghettoized men having sex with men into the categories of sexual orientation;

and produced the culture we call analism.

Paul, you might want to take a look at the post titled anal action, ugh!

That one just went up on May 25 -- so it's very recent and it talks about dominant cultures and the way they behave.

Paul, I know that many of the ideas and terms you'll hear on the Alliance will be new to you.

But we're correct -- our analysis is correct.

...

surely though, sexual oriantation, even anal, shouldnt determine them to all be the same, down to nastiness and soullessness, and their tastes. But hmm, it seems to, for sure.

bar the few frot guys, are all the same, not only for anal but general soullessness,

Right -- because the culture is consumerist and empty.

Yes, I don't understand why though. Why are thse guys all the same in that sense jest because of their anal drives, to the point it determines their 'code of demenour?'

and all like the same kinda 'plastic' music, like to go to swank cafes and have to have a new flashy model car, designer house etc. I mean, how comes theres not a true spread diversity like as there is with guys who like girls?

Good question.

Answer:

Because analism is a "dominant" culture which imposes a high degree of conformity on its members.

Ok, answers my previous question, tho why they conform I'll never know, straight guys don't, diverse as in nature and intersts. Which in fact is notable, as over the years, many of my biggest infatuations have been for guys that in the end, turned out to be straight. I've sometimes wondered about a r'ship with a 'straight' guy who perhaps would be happy to do frot stuff.

Right -- and there are many straight-identified guys who "would be happy to do frot stuff."

You can find some of them in Frot Club.

Lotsa married men, for example, into Frot.

Now I know that many guys don't want to be in a relationship with a married guy.

But there are many -- and more and more every day -- straight-identified guys who are "post-marriage" -- and looking for a different sort of relationship.

If we could get the word out to those guys -- they would be a good source of potential partners.

That's why it's really important to get our message out to the literally millions of men who are ready and eager to hear it.

Bill: That's the end of that particular call and response.

Except that Paul also had a question about the quote from Emerson in my signature line:

"Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members ... The base doctrine of the majority of voices usurps the place of the doctrine of the soul." -- Emerson

Paul: Not sure exactly what that serves to say....

Bill: It says that our modern society doesn't like and distrusts Manhood.

Which is true.

And that the base or ignoble doctrine of the majority -- such as the analist "majority" in gay male life -- usurps the place of true soulfulness -- as you've already said: "nastiness and soullessness" characterize the buttboys.

Emerson, though he predates analism, understood the pressure to conform, and how even a so-called democratic society could establish a tyranny threatening both Manhood and Soul.

Paul

Re: a road of hell: my soul is pretty much dead

6-12-2008

third email: "just about destroyed me to the core"

Hi again Bill. I have now had a look at some of those links you sent. Poor Scott's story of being dumped, ostracised for not doing anal sounded painfully all too familiar, being touted as a weirdo. As a matter of fact, even two straight mates said "Obviously you are not satisfying them enough, and should consider doing more, than they'd come back a second time." I was telling one of them about this site today, and pointed out, even from a medical factual views, it isn't right to go up the anus. In fact honestly even on a really cute guy, the anus hole looks awful.

Sorry you seem to have been hearing my sordid struggles to just keep moving, I'm just rather struggling keeping life and soul together, the remaining faculties intact, and reading about some of the cases in the forum, yep, its the lacking of this one special part over the last few years that's just about destroyed me to the core. People turn round and say, "hey, but you've got a job" or "you've got your mother and brothers" but what the hell has that got to do with it? Like telling a chef who has no oven in his kitchen, Oh, what's the problem, you've got a washing machine".

well, on the baking analogy, life without love in your life, is like baking bread without an important ingredient - yeast- it is flat. or like no octane in gasoline, no spark. I guess the hunger just creates incredible pent up-ness, driven to places like gaydar etc with their having been nothing else, and unable to sleep till 2am, up again for work 8am. Unfortunately, after nights and nights on the computer, and no going home to cuddles and kisses, along with lack of sleep, many nights the old thought processors and soul as dry as an Arizona lake bed, struggle to get the emotion they want. sometimes music with emotion can kick start it, as does some alcohol, which though not the best idea, has to be a comfort many evenings.

But with those sites full of analists, there are so few who come forward anyway, most of them just string you along and play cyber games. And often, stand ups. Compared to a straight guy, they seem to be of a very low libido. but maybe it comes down to when they feel like playing the domination game one way or another , rather than feeling horny. Of course I have had a few loving sounding relationship orientated guys write me as well. But those are scammers, like from Russia etc. I have had contact with one or two guys (but not met) from other parts of the world. And noting that this analism seems to run hand in hand with the westernised capitalist countries the most which I found to be the case even before your site, it's been rather interesting to note that in places, especially where homosexuality is officially illegal, its easier to find a willing guy. I haven't been there, but a friend from UK says a nice loving guy in Morocco is easy to meet. I must say that while in Singapore and Philippines, while on holiday, I met a guy who seemed more than content enough with non anal sex. the defined Singaporean did wonderful things like entrap my head in between his legs, and as a person who really loves legs, it was bliss! And that was one spot in time where I had true pleasurable fun, not being pushed to poke the arse, but to lick his chisel lined abs and his legs, nuzzle his smooth balls with my lips and nose, in fact he entrapped my face in his abs, which was like a giant sensual pair of lips kissing me, so out of this world, and anal wouldn't hold a match to it, in fact as far as you or I are concerned, it would be something of the antithesis. the Filipino was similar, more straight out affectionate than erotic, with large sensual lips. I guess though I have been a little fearful of bringing a guy home, the red tape, costs and then if he was just after residency, after 2 years takes off breaks the heart and bank. it would be the end.

The French guy I told you about, with HIV+, the chemistry isn't full on enough, and then with his condition, he cannot come here for anything other than a visit. He's very sweet, and I'll always love him as a friend. Unfortunately he was infected by his unfaithful partner while in a supposed monogamous relationship. But I guess it must have been anal. I do know one or two guys into anal, who are genuine, it's a rare exception to the rules, of course. So a local guy would be the answer.

Well, that's about all for now. I'll have to send a bank cheque to help out, with paypal stuffing you about, as I'm not a member of Amazon.

There's heaps of other stuff I could comment on that I identify with, but 20 odd years of bitter experiences would make one awfully long sordid email! I just hope I can leave it behind, perhaps like an aircraft turning onto the runway, heading in one direction -- forward, soaring away, climbing upward, upward from the surly bonds of what has been. Days of gaydar can go west. Being online on some of those sites, well, honestly, its been like chopping about on some thick weedy undergrowth in the Siberian desert under a darkening bleak sky in faint glimmer of finding a rarer-than-hens-teeth rose.

Oh, I know what I was going to say. Given the way analist gay guys are, over the many years I have had some substantially long crushes on straight guys, ones who, like I seek in my profile, were gentle, sensitive, emotional yet all male. But off limits. But, 4 years ago, there was one whom I was in a flat with, really sweet, who at that time was in the throes of a break-up with his girlfriend. So often, before and after he got over the break up, he'd tell me that if he was gay, he'd have wanted a relationship with me. Now this guy never said anything unless he meant it. At times he'd take me out and say it again. Plus so many times he'd make a joking innuendo, then say, I wish I was gay, so I could follow it up. And so often as well, anything I'd say he take out of context to make an innuendo at me. Despite the fact I made it clear, if by any chance he did want to do something, I was all cool for it, and would take it at his pace, he'd just say, Sorry, but I just can't. this went on for over 2 years, and I know still how much an infatuation I harboured for him. In fact while overseas he got a handwritten from me telling him how much I wished he was gay because I felt I could live with him quite happily as a partner. Now I'm just wondering if I didn't put enough emphasis on the fact I am not into anal. There was something in his eyes, and it's the eyes more than anything else that make me fall in love. I still know how to get in touch with him, but trying to gently find out if there's more to it -- oh it'd be the long lost, lifelong, ultimate dream come true. I often think of the moment I've rehearsed time and time again in the last 2-3 decades, an emotive song playing, being found in such a guy's arms, both sobbing tears of love, at never being lost and adrift in space ever again, never let go. Followed by a prolonged period of silence, just gently stroking his hair in tight affirming embrace.

Sigh.

The solace I need from this crazy world in which dreams of most types aside relationships seem to be squashed. In fact as I look at things, it's like this analist attitude has spread throughout the world at large, just as they are the same in activities and nasty demeanour, it seems to run hand in had with globalisation, which is no friend to individuality or culture. the style of large retail buildings, houses, cars are all the same in style, if you could call it that, all looks soulless. Even airline liveries. And music, well you compare most of the stuff now to some honest song, in which the lyrics are in total harmony with the vocals and of course the instrumentation. Motown for example, voice of the soul. All this makes me fel more and more an orphan, combined with the guys thing.

That's about all for now, the music I played earlier, woke up the emotions a tad, enabling me to get in tune. Stuff like the Bee Gees... and so on -- when music conveyed feelings of the heart.

Please feel free to use any parts of my emails you deem fit to put on the forums. Many thanks, for compassion and more Paul.

Bill Weintraub

Re: a road of hell: my soul is pretty much dead

6-12-2008

Hi Paul,

Let's take a look:

I have now had a look at some of those links you sent. Poor Scott's story of being dumped, ostracised for not doing anal sounded painfully all too familiar, being touted as a weirdo.

Yes -- there are a number of posts like that on the site.

And it's a very common story.

We've all been there.

As a matter of fact, even two straight mates said "Obviously you are not satisfying them enough, and should consider doing more, than they'd come back a second time." I was telling one of them about this site today,

That's great!

I'm glad you're telling your friends!

and pointed out, even from a medical factual views, it isn't right to go up the anus. In fact honestly even on a really cute guy, the anus hole looks awful.

That's right.

Sorry you seem to have been hearing my sordid struggles to just keep moving, I'm just rather struggling keeping life and soul together, the remaining faculties intact, and reading about some of the cases in the forum, yep, its the lacking of this one special part over the last few years that's just about destroyed me to the core.

Paul, I understand.

People turn round and say, "hey, but you've got a job" or "you've got your mother and brothers" but what the hell has that got to do with it? Like telling a chef who has no oven in his kitchen, Oh, what's the problem, you've got a washing machine".

well, on the baking analogy, life without love in your life, is like baking bread without an important ingredient - yeast- it is flat. or like no octane in gasoline, no spark.

Yes, and Paul that's all very well-said.

I guess the hunger just creates incredible pent up-ness, driven to places like gaydar etc with their having been nothing else, and unable to sleep till 2am, up again for work 8am. Unfortunately, after nights and nights on the computer, and no going home to cuddles and kisses, along with lack of sleep, many nights the old thought processors and soul as dry as an Arizona lake bed, struggle to get the emotion they want. sometimes music with emotion can kick start it, as does some alcohol, which though not the best idea, has to be a comfort many evenings.

But with those sites full of analists, there are so few who come forward anyway, most of them just string you along and play cyber games. And often, stand ups. Compared to a straight guy, they seem to be of a very low libido. but maybe it comes down to when they feel like playing the domination game one way or another, rather than feeling horny. Of course I have had a few loving sounding relationship orientated guys write me as well. But those are scammers, like from Russia etc.

Right -- that's all too common on the net.

I have had contact with one or two guys (but not met) from other parts of the world. And noting that this analism seems to run hand in hand with the westernised capitalist countries the most which I found to be the case even before your site,

Yes, that's right.

Paul -- there's an historical process which we call heterosexualization.

Heterosexualization is a process in the same way that, say, industrialization is.

It's a process -- a fact of history.

In which single gender or homosocial spaces and relationships -- are replaced by mixed gender spaces and relationships.

And where heterosexualization is most advanced -- is where you find analism.

[Because under heterosexualization, sex between men ceases to be an activity, and becomes a condition -- like a disease.

So: In ancient Greece, sex between men was an activity.

And there was no concept of "homosexuality" -- not as we know it.

But in the nineteenth century, as society heterosexualized, the words "homosexuality" and "homosexual" were coined to indicate men who suffered from a condition -- a disease.]

Under heterosexualization, sex between men became a disease, and, in theory, restricted to those who suffered from the disease.

That thinking, in turn, made it easy to isolate and ghettoize men who had sex with men.

etc etc]]

And heterosexualization is most advanced in the Western countries, including of course Australia and New Zealand.

So: just as industrialization was a process and there were belief systems -- including liberalism, communism, and fascism -- which arose out of and in response to that process --

heterosexualization too is an historical process -- and there are belief systems, like analism and heterosexism -- which arise out of and in response to the process.

it's been rather interesting to note that in places, especially where homosexuality is officially illegal, its easier to find a willing guy.

Right.

In theory, in places which are less saturated with Western culture, there should be less emphasis on anal.

Unfortunately, however, most places in the world these days have been affected by Western culture to some degree.

I haven't been there, but a friend from UK says a nice loving guy in Morocco is easy to meet. I must say that while in Singapore and Philippines, while on holiday, I met a guy who seemed more than content enough with non anal sex.

Good -- that's great!

the defined Singaporean did wonderful things like entrap my head in between his legs, and as a person who really loves legs, it was bliss! And that was one spot in time where I had true pleasurable fun, not being pushed to poke the arse, but to lick his chisel lined abs and his legs, nuzzle his smooth balls with my lips and nose, in fact he entrapped my face in his abs, which was like a giant sensual pair of lips kissing me, so out of this world, and anal wouldn't hold a match ti it, in fact as far as you or I are concerned, it would be something of the antithesis.

That's right.

the Filipino was similar, more straight out affectionate than erotic, with large sensual lips. I guess though I have been a little fearful of bringing a guy home, the red tape, costs and then if he was just after residency, after 2 years takes off breaks the heart and bank. it would be the end.

Yeah -- I hear you.

The French guy I told you about, with HIV+, the chemistry isn't full on enough, and then with his condition, he cannot come here for anything other than a visit. He's very sweet, and I'll always love him as a friend. Unfortunately he was infected by his unfaithful partner while in a supposed monogamous relationship. But I guess it must have been anal.

Of course.

And that's a common scenario.

Faithful lover infected by promiscuous, caddish, top.

Very common.

So a local guy would be the answer.

Right.

That's why it's important to post in Frot Club.

Even if there are very few other posts.

Because far more people read those ads than post an ad.

So it's important to post.

And guys, Paul's post is here.

Well, that's about all for now.

I'll have to send a bank cheque to help out, with paypal stuffing you about, as I'm not a member of Amazon.

Thank you Paul.

There's heaps of other stuff I could comment on that I identify with, but 20 odd years of bitter experiences would make one awfully long sordid email! I just hope I can leave it behind, perhaps like an aircraft turning onto the runway, heading in one direction -- forward, soaring away, climbing upward, upward from the surly bonds of what has been.

Right -- that's beautifully said, and I hope that happens for you.

Days of gaydar can go west. Being online on some of those sites, well, honestly, its been like chopping about on some thick weedy undergrowth in the Siberian desert under a darkening bleak sky in faint glimmer of finding a rarer-than-hens-teeth rose.

Also beautifully said.

Oh, I know what I was going to say. Given the way analist guy guys are, over the many years I have had some substantially long crushes on straight guys, ones who, like I seek in my profile, were gentle, sensitive, emotional yet all male. But off limits.

But, 4 years ago, there was one whom I was in a flat with, really sweet, who at that time was in the throes of a break-up with his girlfriend. So often, before and after he got over the break up, he'd tell me that if he was gay, he'd have wanted a relationship with me. Now this guy never said anything unless he meant it. At times he'd take me out and say it again. Plus so many times he'd make a joking innuendo, then say, I wish I was gay, so I could follow it up. And so often as well, anything I'd say he take out of context to make an innuendo at me. Despite the fact I made it clear, if by any chance he did want to do something, I was all cool for it, and would take it at his pace, he'd just say, Sorry, but I just can't. this went on for over 2 years, and I know still how much an infatuation I harboured for him. In fact while overseas he got a handwritten from me telling him how much I wished he was gay because I felt I could live with him quite happily as a partner. Now I'm just wondering if I didn't put enough emphasis on the fact I am not into anal. There was something in his eyes, and it's the eyes more than anything else that make me fall in love. I still know how to get in touch with him, but trying to gently find out if there's more to it... oh it'd be the long lost, lifelong, ultimate dream come true.

Paul, did you tell this guy flat out that you're not into anal?

Paul, what you may want to do is send him the URL of this page -- so that he knows how you feel.

I don't know if that will make a difference to him -- but it might.

I often think of the moment I've rehearsed time and time again in the last 2-3 decades, an emotive song playing, being found in such a guys' arms, both sobbing tears of love, at never being lost and adrift in space ever again, never let go. Followed by a prolonged period of silence, just gently stroking his hair in tight affirming embrace.

Sigh.

The solace I need from this crazy world in which dreams of most types aside relationships seem to be squashed. I fact as I look at things, it's like this analist attitude has spread throughout the world at large, just as they are the same in activities and nasty demeanour, it seems to run hand in hand with globalisation, which is no friend to individuality or culture. the style of large retail buildings, houses, cars are all the same in style, if you could call it that, all looks soulless.

Even airline liveries. And music, well you compare most of the stuff now to some honest song, in which the lyrics are in total harmony with the vocals and of course the instrumentation. Motown for example, voice of the soul. All this makes me fel more and more an orphan, combined with the guys thing.

That's about all for now, the music I played earlier, woke up the emotions a tad, enabling me to get in tune. Stuff like the Bee Gees... and so on... when music conveyed feelings of the heart.

Paul, I understand.

And Paul, thank you for your post.

You're a true Warrior.

Bill

So guys -- those are Paul's letters and my replies.

I hope some of you will feel moved to write to Paul -- pukeko_zknad@yahoo.co.nz -- or to reply to him on this board.

And let him know that he's not alone.

He's a working class, passionate, and poetical guy -- and he might just be YOUR guy.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2008 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.