Posts
from
Fighting and Freedom
5-27-2009
Intro note from Bill Weintraub:
Hi guys.
Here are two posts from Warrior Naked Wrestler aka NW.
The first is titled Fighting and Freedom;
the second, Nude Fight Sport and Western Civilization.
Like everything NW writes, they're excellent.
Ck em out.
Bill
I'm a recovering Catholic myself. Served 12 years in Catholic schools growing up.
Christianity (an Eastern Religion by the way) destroyed the Classical World created by the Greeks and Romans.
Pre-Christian Mediterranean society worshiped male aggression as the source of Freedom that it is. Our modern industrial society shuns male aggression, which is just one reason we are losing our freedom.
To Sparta, Athens, and Rome, male aggression, fighting and freedom WERE a religion.
Then the passivity of Christianity brought on the Dark Ages.
1500 years AFTER Christianity drove freedom underground, systematically crushed literacy, and created the Dark Ages, the classic Spartan-Athenian-Roman values (Western Values) of individual freedom and respect for man, re-emerged in an experimental government of a new nation called The United States of America. This happened primarily because people in America were willing to stand up to the British Bully. It worked.
I still don't know exactly what a Conservative or a Liberal is. I DO know my History though.
Fighting and Freedom are 2 sides of the same coin.
Spartans, Athenians, and Romans had a clear understanding of this. You can't have one without the other. It's why fight sports were so much a part of Greek and Roman culture. Freedom was, and always will be, attained by fighting, not by baseball, basketball, or golf. Turning the other cheek doesn't get you freedom either.
Imagine turning the other cheek to the Japs after Pearl Harbor.
Fight!
NW
Re: Fighting and Freedom
5-27-09
Thank you NW.
For those of you who are new to the Alliance and not familiar with Naked Wrestler aka NW, he's the author of many posts and replies on this board and this site, including aggresssion and the beauty of guys and The Warrior Male.
Ck em out.
NW:
Pre-Christian Mediterranean society worshiped male aggression as the source of Freedom that it is.
...
To Sparta, Athens, and Rome, male aggression, fighting and freedom WERE a religion.
That's correct.
And the Greeks in particular also made a connection between and among Fighting, the Manly bonds formed in male-male Love affairs -- and Freedom.
Plato stated flat out that tyrants, and tyrannical systems, such as the Persian, would never tolerate male-male relationships, relationships freely chosen by and between Free Men:
For the interests of rulers require that their subjects should be poor in spirit, and that there should be no strong bond of friendship or society among them, and love, above all other motives, is likely to inspire this, as our Athenian tyrants learned by experience; for the love of Aristogeiton and the constancy of Harmodius had a strength which undid their power.
And, therefore, the ill-repute into which these attachments have fallen is to be ascribed to the evil condition of those who make them ill-reputed; that is to say, to the rapacity of the governors and the cowardice of the governed.
Notice that Plato links together "love of youths," which is the way the Greeks often referred to Love between Men, or, as Plutarch puts it, the Love of Men;
Philosophy -- the Love of Wisdom; and
Gymnastics -- nude exercise, including in Fight Sports -- and nude military training.
Manly Love, Philosophy, and Nude Fight Sports -- are, in the Greek mind, intertwined.
Plato goes on to note that among the Greeks, "open loves are held to be more honorable than secret ones, and the love of the noblest and highest, even if their persons are less beautiful than others, is especially honorable."
Remember that among the Greeks, those male-male Love relationships -- which were referred to and governed by the God Eros -- were nurtured at the Fight School.
The Palaistra.
Which was also used as a military training ground.
So for the Greeks there was an explicit connection between EROS -- the God of Male-Male Love -- and ARES -- the God of Male-Male War.
This is something I'll be looking at -- at much greater length -- in a forthcoming post.
I should also point out that among the Athenians, it was the pro-Spartan philosophers, including Socrates, Plato, and Xenophon, who were clearest about the connection between Fighting and Freedom.
No question of that.
In a follow-up email NW said:
Real men (Western Men) know that death is better than not being Free.
The rest of the World wants the goodies that are the result of this Western Male willingness to sacrifice. The technological wonders we've produced, as well as the personal liberties that we enjoy come from this male, testosterone driven sacrifice....this Fighting Spirit.
China wanted to have the Olympic Games, but they refused to allow the Western Freedoms of expression and privacy that go along with such a Western Tradition as the Olympic Games, invented by a Western Civilization.
Yes Western Freedom IS built on the courage and drive built into the balls of Western MEN.
Athenians and Spartans recognized this when they went to war against the Persians to drive back a huge Eastern Power. They displayed it in nude sport; they displayed it in their art.
Balls are beautiful.
Christianity tried its best to crush and destroy the Western Male spirit, and it succeeded for a time. The reason that Germanics and Brits re-started the "freedom movement" in Europe was because of their physical distance and barriers to Catholicism. England is an Island and Germany is mostly East of the Rhine River. Christianity lost its grip on the once free thinking pagans of Northern Europe.
Once again, NW's right.
NW:
Real men (Western Men) know that death is better than not being Free.
...
Western Freedom IS built on the courage and drive built into the balls of Western MEN.
The question is -- When will the putative men who claim to be part of this Alliance figure out the "death is better than not being Free"?
And when will they find the Courage and Drive which should be built into their balls?
Because what NW is saying is simple -- and true:
If you want Freedom, you have to Fight for it.
The reason so few of you are Free -- is that you won't Fight.
And since you won't Fight --
You'll NEVER be Free.
Your lives, such as they are, will be governed by analism and heterosexism and consumerism -- until you get old and shrivel up and die.
And that your lives will have been that way --
will have been YOUR FAULT.
No one else's.
Here's one more post from NW -- he calls it:
Wrestling nude was CONSIDERED erotic to the ancient Greeks; it's WHY they did it nude. That eroticism was tied to the aggression of wrestling and man-to-man normal aggression.
Wrestling/Boxing/Pankration (and war itself) was the flip side of Male Naked Attraction.
Greeks/Celts/Gauls/Germanics ALL lived by this normal reality, up to the advent of Forced Christianity, which led to Forced Hetero-Sexualization, and Forced Homo-Phobia.
In the Christianized/homo-phobic West, that normal male paradox of male-male attraction and aggression was systematically crushed. Christianity is actually an Eastern Religion (look where it got started). The natural male body was vilified by the powers that be, the Holy Roman Empire.
We have since adopted that stupidity, and it has become OUR sense of normal.
But Greek males reasoned that males should be proud of their nudity. They correctly linked male genitals, as beautiful and vulnerable as they are OUTSIDE the male body, to be the SOURCE of male aggression and male-male attraction which they considered totally normal (which it is).
Ancient Greeks believed they should share the visibility of their bodies with the other males in their society. It was (and IS) the glue that holds a society together, ready to fight for the common defense when needed. The males went to the Gymnasium (place of naked exercise) to share their nakedness among each other. NOT being willing to go naked was considered rude, un-masculine, and un-civilized.
Greeks did NOT practice, nor did they EVER condone, any form of anal sex -- not ever. That practice is a modern, disgusting, self-loathing fetish, which is erroneously associated with normal male2male attraction and the aggression men rightfully and normally connect with that aggression.
This Normal Greek Nudity was a cornerstone of Western Freedom and Individuality. It's the stuff of Western Civilization.
I think like a Greek.
NW
Thank you NW.
Guys, what NW is saying in these two posts:
That for the Greeks, Fighting and Freedom were intertwined; and
That Fighting and Male-Male eroticism and romance -- Eros -- were intertwined --
is absolutely true.
Nor is it part of some hidden or esoteric knowledge.
Plato wrote ca 400 BC.
Plutarch ca 100 AD.
Both writers were extensively taught until the collapse of the ancient world.
Their works were then lovingly preserved by Christian monks and Muslim scholars --
and were republished in the Renaissance.
The first translation of Plutarch into French, for example, occurred in the 16th century; and was quickly followed by North's great English translation, which was heavily used by Shakespeare and other English authors.
Homer, Plato, Plutarch, Xenophon, and writers like Pindar then became core to the standard education in the West -- for the next three hundred years.
And their discussions of Fighting, Freedom, and same-sex Eros -- are very clear.
Indeed, in Excellence, Honor, and the Molding of Men, I describe and document how Fighting was literally central to paideia -- Greek culture:
So the palaistra, whose name derives from the word "pale" for wrestling, is basically a fight space surrounded by classrooms.
Where males were instructed in paideia -- culture.
Including, it must be said, the culture of same-sex Love -- Eros.
A palaistra was to be found in EVERY Greek city-state.
And at the palaistra, as Plato said, youths were instructed in Fighting; Philosophy; and the Love of Men.
That's the truth.
The problem with many of you guys is that you're so mired -- literally in many cases -- in shitholes, that you can't see that truth.
NW can.
And he's here expressed that truth concisely -- and cogently.
Thank you again NW.
You're a true Warrior.
Bill Weintraub
May 27, 2009
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... in Ionia [the Greek city-states of Asia Minor, which were ruled by the Persians], and other places, and generally in countries which are subject to the barbarians [the Persians], loves of youths share the evil reputation of philosophy [the love of Wisdom] and gymnastics [nude exercise, particularly in the Fight Sports], because they are inimical to tyranny.
Aristogeiton and Harmodius
military training at the palaistra
Schematic of the palaistra at Olympia
The Fight Pits are in the center of the building;
they're surrounded by classrooms for teaching philosophy, rhetoric, and other subjects
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