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I love the female body,
but the cock is also wonderful
I love the female body, but the cock is also wonderful
1-24-2011
Hi Bill
My name is Omar I just found your site, and I'm so happy that I found it.
I'm a straight male 23 years old with a girlfriend that I love with all my heart but ever since I was a young boy I would dream about doing frot with another boy. I never knew why, never seen gay sex when I was young so I didn't know where this idea come from. I thought it was just me and now that I'm older I feel more like wanting to explore my feelings about frot. I don't think I'm gay I love the female body, but I feel like the cock is also a wonderful thing males have.
Reading your site, and seeing that I'm not the only male out there with the same feelings is great I feel now that nothing is wrong with me and what I feel is normal, for that I thank you.
I'm not going to cheat on my girlfriend, I love her, that being said I'm very faithful to our relationship so I'm not here to find a buddy, but if I do. Do you think that would be appropriate? a male partner to frot?
I'm also writing this to let you know I will be donating every month 10 dollars to help with the site expense, I want to become a member of The Man2Man Alliance and I also want to claim my premium that you have on your site. You said in your site I'm suppose to claim that premium membership via email to you so here I am. Telling you a little about myself and letting you know I'll be donating every month to help.
I want to be a cock warrior and a member even though I wont find a male partner at least I can help someone else to.
Thank you for reading this Bill
Reply from:
Re: I love the female body, but the cock is also wonderful
1-24-11
Hey Omar,
Thank you for writing to me and for your kind words about my work and our sites.
I'm glad they've resonated and been meaningful for you.
Let's take a look:
Omar, that's great!
Okay.
Omar, no one is truly "straight" and no one is "gay."
What happens in our society is that people are not just encouraged but in effect forced to choose from among one or the other of the categories of so-called sexual orientation.
And then they identify as that category.
So, in the Alliance, we would say that you're straight-identified.
But that doesn't mean that you're truly "straight."
Omar, to understand more about that, please read Sex Between Men: An Activity, Not a Condition.
Omar, that's very important reading.
Once again, the article is Sex Between Men: An Activity, Not a Condition, and every site visitor, and of course Alliance member, should read it.
Yes.
And Omar, that's completely normal and natural.
It's normal and natural for a guy to want to have sex with
guy, and the most natural and manly way to do that is Frot.
Okay.
Frot isn't "gay" sex and it's not "straight" sex.
It's Man2Man sex.
And it's what every Man wants and deserves.
Omar, those ideas come from within you.
From your True and Manly heart.
Good!
Right.
Like I just told you, no one's "gay."
So again, please read this article:
Sex Between Men: An Activity, Not a Condition
And try to read some of the posts associated with it, such as Staying Strong and Masculine.
Very important that you do.
That's right.
And Omar -- all Men feel that way.
Have you ever been in a locker room, Omar, and seen the guys checking out each other's cocks?
It's natural for Men to do that.
It's what guys do.
As one of our Warriors, who we call NW, and who's a former collegiate wrestler who now trains in MMA, says:
"Normal guys ALWAYS look at another dude's crotch to check out his Manhood. Because balls, penis and muscles are TOTALLY interconnected."
And that's right.
Balls, penis, and muscles are all markers of Manliness, and that's why Men care about them.
That's correct!
Omar, you're very welcome, I'm glad we can be here for you.
Yes.
Basically, Omar, the male-male part of your life is separate from
male-female.
Traditionally, that's how Men have lived.
They have their male friends and their male lover or Frot Buddy,
and then they have their Woman.
Two separate parts, two separate spheres of Life.
Neither need interfere with the other.
And traditionally, they have not.
Rather, they enhance each other.
Yes -- and the way to do that is by posting in Frot Club
Omar, that's great, and thank you very much for doing that.
Donations are greatly needed and greatly appreciated.
Omar, I understand.
Once you've donated $60 total we'll arrange for your premium.
Omar, that's great, and thank you again!
Okay.
Omar, whether you do that or not is up to you.
Omar, that's right.
That's what we call Warrior Altruism and it's very important.
We talk about Warrior Altruism in many posts, but particularly in The Warrior Altruism of the Warrior God.
You might want to check that out.
Omar, you're very welcome and thank you again for writing -- and for donating.
Reply from:
Re: I love the female body but the cock is also wonderful
1-24-2011
Thank you so much Bill for this words. They made me feel alot better about what I feel. I feel good knowing that I'm a man. Not a gay man not a straight man but a man, man.
I will be pledging via credit card, every month on the month. I totally understand that some other guy out there will see the site and all the hard work you made will help them as it did me.
You have no idea how much more better I feel. I understand what you mean that I can have a male male partner and male female partner, but I don't think my girlfriend/wife would understand. Thats very understandable for me as well. I would love to meet a male frot buddy to experience what you and many others have. I have never been with another man, so I'm a little nervous. That's normal I guess, and since I have a girlfriend I don't want to lose her. So I'm torn between, the love I have for her, and what I feel, I must do. I have read some stories about married man who have been in the same place and have a frot buddy. I hope that one day that would be me. I'm very happy I found your site, I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity. thank you Bill. I'll post a little about myself in the youth section of the frot club, since I'm young and all maybe someone My age and maybe going thru the same thing would meet up here in LA. Thank you again and thank you so much for replying
Reply from:
Re: I love the female body, but the cock is also wonderful
1-24-11
Hey Omar
It's great hearing back from you!
Omar, you're very welcome.
I'm glad you found them helpful.
Good!
That's right.
That's exactly right!
Great, Omar, and thank you so very very much.
That's right.
And that's what's crucial to understand.
Some other guy donated before you and thus made it possible for you to see the site.
Now your donation will make it possible for the next guy to see the site.
And that's what Warrior Altruism is about.
Someone -- a fellow Warrior -- has helped you.
Now you'll help a fellow Warrior.
That creates what I call a chain of Warrior Fellowship -- of Warriorhood.
One Warrior helps another who helps the next.
Great!
Omar, you're right, she probably wouldn't.
Yes.
Yes -- you'd like it.
A lot!
Omar, that speaks well of you.
Very well of you.
And it's also wise.
Men are not made to be promiscuous with other Men.
It doesn't work well for them.
I understand.
Of course it is.
Okay.
Do you feel you'd have to tell her if you had a Frot buddy?
Because again, these really are two separate areas or spheres of your life.
I understand.
Right.
And what they find is that having a Frot buddy actually improves their marriages.
Sexually and in other ways.
Because they're happier.
Their male-male needs are being fulfilled -- and that makes them happy.
And their wives don't have to know why.
All they know is that their Man is happier, and -- sexier.
So it's win-win.
Right!
And Omar, I'm glad you found us.
Good!
Omar, again, you're very welcome.
Omar -- that sounds good.
Just send me your post in the body of an email and I'll get you posted.
Omar, you're very welcome.
And Omar, never hesitate to write.
Sometimes it may take me a few days to respond -- but I always will.
And also Omar -- thank you again and again for donating and for setting up a recurring donation.
Like I said, Omar, your donations will help build a chain of Warrior Fellowship -- of Warriorhood -- that's essential to our work and eventual success.
So you've done a very good thing, and again I thank you for it.
Omar, thank you again.
Bill
So guys, what you see here is the Alliance hugely helping a straight-identified guy to understand that his same-sex needs and desires are normal and natural, and that if he acts on those desires, he needn't worry about being shunted into a "gay" box.
So: after just one email from me and reading Sex Between Men: An Activity, Not A Condition, Omar says
And Omar adds
That's quite a testament to the power of our work.
At the same time -- and this speaks well of him -- Omar expresses reluctance and ambivalence about getting involved with a guy while he's involved with a woman:
So -- let's talk about "bi" guys -- being "bi."
Recently I got an email from a woman -- whom I'll call Dee -- who was utterly shocked by our site's discussion of "bisexuality" among the Greeks.
Clearly, she'd never heard of that before.
Which is kind of amazing, given that all you have to do is read Plato, one of the world's great and seminal thinkers -- and Greek male-male is right there.
But -- I guess nowadays many people don't read Plato.
Plato's inconvenient.
Not only does he talk about a form of male-male which is alien to our culture, but he also talks about God and morality.
So -- hey -- we'll just skip Plato.
We'll read about matriarchy instead.
Even though a number of scholars have questioned the existence of matriarchy.
But -- matriarchy's about women, so even if it never existed, we all have to pretend -- that it did.
Anyways, Dee just couldn't square the historical fact of Greek male-male with what she called our society's "SOP of a committed 'heterosexual' relationship."
It obviously upset her.
I wrote back to her, very politely, and explained to her classicist KJ Dover's formulation
and I referred her to historian-of-marriage Stephanie Coontz' New York Times op-ed on marriage in the present and in the past.
In which Coontz makes the following points:
So -- that's all in Coontz' op-ed.
And Coontz is after all, a Woman.
Didn't matter.
A few days later I heard back from Dee -- and what I heard was a truly dreadful feminist rant.
She said that we of the Alliance were encouraging men in "fooling around."
NO.
Just the opposite.
We're adamantly opposed to promiscuity and tell Men to have ONE partner of the same sex.
She also said that we encourage Men to be deceptive.
No.
What we do is tell Men the truth -- that many women, probably most, in our culture, cannot handle the idea that their Man is with another Man.
It freaks them out.
And Dee's rant is now Exhibit A is just how freaked out they can become.
So folks -- be warned -- if you write to me, and you ask me questions, and I take the time to write back to you, politely, answering those questions -- and you respond with a rant --
well, chances are good that I'll make use of that rant -- in ways which you will NOT like.
Case in point --
This is Dee's closing sentence:
Really paranoid, and really dismissive of the male need to be with another Man.
Nowhere on our site does anyone suggest that women are or should be "baby factories, personal attendants, cooks, maids," etc.
Dee doesn't care.
She makes it sound as though we do, and then strongly suggests that a Man can find *everything* he wants and needs in a woman.
NO.
If that were the case, all the guys on our site who are in male-female relationships -- wouldn't be on our site.
Nor would Stephanie Coontz have said
And that's the truth.
Dee doesn't care.
In her version of the universe, a Man can only have one deep emotional connection, and that's with a woman -- presumably and preferably her.
Not only that, but he can't even Wrestle with another guy.
"Meet us naked on your wrestling mats" she says.
Well, there are guys who like to wrestle women.
For sexual reasons.
And that's fine.
But the point we make repeatedly is that:
Men NEED the *Aggression* of other MEN.
MEN NEED AGGRESSION.
"Men like the company of men no matter how much our culture demonizes that inclination."
"Only men help men develop masculinity and expend energy in fighting or some physical activity that affirms their masculinity."
Right.
Fighting -- Fighting another Man -- affirms Masculinity.
Manliness.
It's The Manliness of Aggression.
A Manliness which Men can realize only through Fighting -- and Loving -- other Men.
Dee doesn't want to hear that.
Her message is the message of heterosexualization:
Women are and should be everything.
Including your wrestling partners.
You don't need another Man.
Or anyone else.
Just wrestle your wife.
Thus illustrating what my foreign friend says:
Exactly.
And that's what's clear in Dee's rant.
She doesn't care about the welfare of Men.
She's interested only in "women's rights" -- including the "right" to sole and total possession of a male.
And yet Coontz -- who IS A WOMAN -- and an historian of marriage --
has told Dee -- that that's a really bad idea.
Dee doesn't care.
So -- we don't tell Men to be deceptive.
What we tell Men is that there are a lot of women like Dee.
And for just that reason Men need to be cautious before talking about male-male with their wives.
That's what we tell Men -- and we're right.
And actually that advice is commonly given on other sites which deal with this male-male / male-female issue.
One "clr" site said that only about 25% of guys who are involved with both a Man and a woman -- tell the woman.
Not surprising.
Sad, in a way, because we know that women benefit from male-male.
And sad too because Men who elect to follow their woman's wishes on this point -- end up with a lifetime of regret.
This is from a post from guy named Lee, who's in Iowa, which just appeared in Frot Club:
Lee is sixty.
Maybe he'll meet someone, but it would be a lot easier if he were Omar's age -- twenty-three.
I hear from a lot of guys like Lee.
And I take what they tell me into account -- when I communicate with someone like Omar.
I always tell guys -- what you do is up to you.
But I don't discourage them either.
Because in my view that would be to do them an enormous dis-service.
The problem -- and it's immense -- is that our society provides no cultural supports for someone like Omar -- or Lee.
Nor does it, in any positive way, for someone like Dee.
In ancient Greece, women understood that male-male took place in a totally separate sphere of life --
separate, that is, from male-female.
And that it wasn't, therefore, a threat to them.
Women don't understand that here.
And what's worse, they're told that male-male = "gay."
Which is scary because "gay" and "straight" are supposed to be totally separate and apart.
And once a guy has crossed the line over into "gay," it's thought, he'll never come back to "straight."
Which, it must be said, in many cases becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
But -- IT NEED NOT.
Omar's a MAN.
Thanks to this site, thanks to The Man2Man Alliance, and to those few true Men and true Warriors who donate and thus keep the site and the Alliance alive -- he now knows that.
And, he says,
And --
Omar is doing the right thing, showing that he's a stand-up guy, a true Man and a true Warrior --
by Donating in return.
Other guys helped him --
now he'll help other guys.
Like I said to him, that builds a chain of Warrior Fellowship.
And that's the Truth.
Without that Warrior Fellowship we can't succeed.
With it -- we can't be stopped.
Let's come back to Dee -- someone who would like to stop us -- and her feminist rant.
Earlier in this post there's a link to a book on amazon.com which debunks the myth of matriarchy.
This is from one of the customer reviews of that book -- the reviewer is a woman:
This review is from: The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory: Why An Invented Past Will Not Give Women a Future (Paperback)
Review by Kelly L. (www.FantasyLiterature.com) (Columbia, MO United States) (TOP 500 REVIEWER)
_The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory_ is a very interesting expose' of the Matriarchy Myth. You know the one. Everybody lived in perfect peace and harmony, worshipping the Goddess, until the Big Bad Patriarchal Invaders swept in and ruined everything.
Cynthia Eller isn't afraid to ask the questions that seem to get swept under the rug by this theory, for example: Where is the evidence for this matriarchy? How did the Big Bad Invaders become patriarchal themselves? Is the idea of a feminine utopia sexist? And why (I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had this question) does everyone think the Venus of Willendorf looks pregnant?
Eller shows that there is little evidence for an ancient matriarchy. There isn't much evidence against it, either; very little decipherable record remains. Goddess-interested researchers tend to see Goddess symbols everywhere. A straight line represents the Goddess. So does a wavy one. (I suppose my own propensity to doodle spiderwebs in the corners of my papers means I'm invoking Arachne every time I make my grocery list.)
Eller shows these excesses for what they are, and shows that there is very little proof of the matriarchy theory.
Even more interesting than this, though, is Eller's spotlight on the ideas behind this proposed utopia. Matriarchalists seem to believe that women, merely by virtue of being women, have certain personality traits such as compassion, cooperation, nurturance, pacifism, and a greater connection to emotions and intuition than to logic. And if women ran the world, society would reflect these traits. Eller notices, though many other writers do not, that these "feminine" traits are the same ones ascribed to women in medieval times, or in the Victorian age. Traits that have been used to bring women down. Is it really "feminist" to limit oneself to an archetypal "good mother" role that has been forced on us since antiquity?
Eller instead envisions a society where neither women nor men are exalted simply for being women or men. A society where the sexes are treated equally. Hopefully we can continue striving for this.
So -- the Matriarchy Myth envisions a world of perfect peace and harmony run by women -- and which was disrupted and destroyed by Men.
Problem:
There's no evidence that such a world ever existed.
The reviewer, herself a woman, notes that "Matriarchalists seem to believe that women, merely by virtue of being women, have certain personality traits such as compassion, cooperation, nurturance, pacifism, and a greater connection to emotions and intuition than to logic. And if women ran the world, society would reflect these traits."
But there's no evidence for that either.
To the contrary, socio-biology and genetics tell us the opposite -- that women are, by evolution, more selfish than Men.
Indeed, a recent article on the genetics of human reproduction in The New York Times said
[There are] differences between male and female brains and differences in a mother's and father's contributions to social behavior.
. . .
The maternal genes stand to gain if the woman is as selfish as possible and focuses just on her and her children's welfare. But since the father is related to everyone else in the village, the father's genes will gain from altruistic behavior.
. . .
Natural selection, say [evolutionary biologists] in an article in the current issue of Evolution, will favor the activation of paternal genes that underlie altruistic behavior and maternal genes that promote selfishness. "Your paternal genes want you to be nicer to your neighbors than your maternal genes do," Dr. Gardner said in an interview.
Of course that doesn't mean that any individual Woman will be more selfish than any individual Man; nor that any and every Man will be more altruistic.
But what the article points out -- and which has been much discussed in evolutionary biology and sociobiology -- is that there are profound differences between Men and Women based upon differing genetically-determined reproductive strategies.
And given that that's true, "gender neutrality" is just another dopey genderist and feminist lie.
Do you understand?
Dee's claiming that historically women have been oppressed.
She doesn't mention that women are doing really, really well right now.
And that Men are falling behind.
Instead, she uses the claim of past oppression to justify her demand that the male find in the female -- his all and everything.
But that's not possible.
For one thing, as the Times points out, because there are big differences between Men and women.
And that some of those have to do with selfishness and altruism.
What struck me about Dee's letter was how selfish it was.
How threatened she was by the idea that a Man might find some sexual and -- most importantly -- EMOTIONAL -- solace in another MAN.
Even though such solace would benefit him.
And even though when he doesn't have it he feels bereft.
Just today a married Man wrote me to say how lonely he was, and that
Does that sound extreme, or childish?
But remember what Coontz said:
Not only do Men like sleeping with other Men --
They *need* to do it.
The teddy-bear guy has a wife.
He loves her.
He doesn't want to leave her.
But he needs a MAN too.
Why is that so hard for someone like Dee to understand?
Maybe because of some innate selfishness dictated by reproductive strategy.
But maybe too because her society gives her no tools, no way, of understanding it.
Sad.
Nor does it bode well for her future relationships.
Let's get back to Omar, and what I said about him earlier:
Omar's a Man.
A True Man.
Thanks to this site, thanks to The Man2Man Alliance, and to those few true Men and true Warriors who donate and thus keep the site and the Alliance alive -- he now knows that.
And, he says,
And --
Omar is doing the right thing, showing that he's a stand-up guy, a true Man and a true Warrior --
by Donating in return.
Other guys helped him --
now he'll help other guys.
Like I said to him, that builds a chain of Warrior Fellowship.
And that's the Truth.
Without that Warrior Fellowship we can't succeed.
With it -- we can't be stopped.
So -- I have a saying:
"Knowledge confers responsibility."
If you know something and understand something -- you have a responsibility to act on it.
Omar said:
I'm very happy I found your site, I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity.
The Alliance helped Omar and he says, "even though I wont find a male partner at least I can help someone else to."
Wow!
If only -- if only -- more of you would think that way.
Have you ever heard -- What goes round comes round?
If you could just excise that gritty, grubby, gruesome and grotesque pseudo-religion of greed-and-growth from your minds --
and once -- just once! -- think of another guy --
Maybe -- just maybe -- you'd get somewhere in Life.
C'mon, tell the truth.
Has the gruesome philosophy of greed-and-growth made you happy?
Ever?
No.
If it had you wouldn't be here.
In the Republic, Plato says that ethically, mankind can be divided into three groups:
At the top are the Philosophers -- the lovers of Wisdom.
Second are the Warriors -- the lovers of Honor.
And last are the money-makers -- those who love material possessions and passions, such as food and sex.
What's essential for you to see is that Plato's ethical order -- which has been the ethical order of the Western world for two-and-a-half millenia -- has now been turned on its head.
The materialists -- the money-makers -- are now at the top of the heap.
Warriors are a very distant second.
Philosophers -- including the Hebrew prophets and Jesus himself, ethically speaking -- are ignored.
No society -- East or West -- has ever done that before.
For a good reason.
It's not sustainable.
Alan Greenspan -- the former head of the Federal Reserve -- was the most respected voice in our nation's economic policy -- for decades.
I respected him.
I thought he was a Jew and an intellectual.
Turns out he was neither.
He was a follower of a bizarre cult founded by a White Russian emigre named Ayn Rand, who believed that the Cross and other religious symbols should be replaced by the dollar sign.
Literally.
That's what she believed.
And that's what Greenspan believed.
And he counseled the nation accordingly.
And then the nation collapsed.
He was surprised.
Most people were surprised.
We shouldn't have been.
We should have been paying attention.
You have to pay attention.
You have to think about what you actually believe.
What about my mentioning Plato's view of the ethical superiority of Philosophy -- that is, the Love of the Good -- on a site obstensibly devoted to Warrior Sex?
Heroic Sex.
The answer is that for me, Sex, like Warrior, is meant to be a path to transcendence.
To Holiness.
The Sacred.
The Divine.
The Good.
I say that Sex -- Phallic Sex, Phallus Against Phallus Sex -- between two Loving Men can be one of the highest manifestations of the human *spirit*.
The sex is of the body, but the manifestation is of the Spirit.
I also say that The *Way* of the Warrior is the *Way* of *Salvation*.
Both Phallus Against Phallus and the Way of the Warrior are Paths -- Spiritual Paths -- which lead to the Divine.
Would Plato agree?
I think he would.
Plato wasn't opposed to human beings meeting basic human needs.
Like other Greek ethicists, he was opposed to excess and what the Greeks called Kakia -- Vice -- which is derived from their word for human waste and which includes anal and promiscuity.
And he viewed philosophy, which is of the mind and dispassionate, as superior to bodily passions, which -- like the itch which has to be stratched and then stratched again -- are satisfied briefly and then re-appear.
But -- and again -- that doesn't mean he was opposed to human beings living.
He simply wanted them to live ethically and, above all, justly.
So:
As we discussed in Prudence or the Pill, Sokrates, in Xenophon's Symposium, speaks of a "chaste" Eros -- that is, a chaste physical and romantic Love, between Men.
How can that be?
Because the Greek word for chaste, in this instance, is also their word for self-control and temperance.
While I say of Frot that it's a rigorous practice.
Not just physically, but spiritually.
So:
Can the Warrior's Love of Honor lead to the Love of the Divine -- the Love of God?
Yes.
Can the love of sex lead to the Divine?
NO.
Not per se.
Because the love of sex is just lust.
But -- if you love Manhood, and Manliness, and conceive of Manliness as a Divine Principle and Manhood as a Divine Gift -- which we do -- and you come to know a Man, and to love that Man, and to love him for his Goodness and Nobility and Strength;
and then long to merge your Manliness and Manhood with his, that both might be celebrated and exalted --
that can and will lead to the Divine.
But -- that cannot happen in an instant.
It requires courtship -- and clarity.
So -- if you look at Prudence or the Pill, you see that Callias' courtship of Autolycus is being carried out not just under the eyes of Autolycus' father -- but of many Men.
Leading Men of the city-state, like Sokrates.
Plato intended that his utopian Republic be a Greek city-state.
Not a vast empire like Persia's, and not a huge city like Rome's -- but a relatively small Greek city-state.
With its five distinctive institutions of agora, assembly, gymnasion, theater, and, as Paul Shorey puts it, temple-crowned akropolis.
In such a state, male-male, as well as male-female, were highly structured and supervised.
Male-male today takes place in a mass and massively debased society, it's neither structured nor supervised, and that creates an enormous problem for someone like Omar, who wants to do the right thing, but who's going to be hit on by males -- who want to do everything but the right thing.
I've told you guys to put together Regional Chapters.
Such chapters would constitute a community of Men committed to doing the right thing.
You won't do it.
You're terminally stupid and selfish and stingy and, of course, greedy about this.
What you want is to find a partner with the very least possible effort;
and then when things, predictably, don't go well --
you complain to me.
Recently someone complained that the guys he'd contacted through Frot Club were playing the same sorts of games he'd experienced on analist websites.
He's donated -- twice over two years -- and I checked my records.
His donations average out to $5 a month.
That's not enough.
Clearly.
Yet, fact is, he's not willing to spend more than $5 a month on something as important as his relational life.
His "love" life.
And he's in his forties.
Time is flying by.
Then he tells me that he's joined a Yahoo mutual masturbation group -- and doesn't that sound like fun -- and been immediately hit on for anal.
Why?
Because the culture in which that group exists is analist.
And that cannot be changed on $5 a month.
Can it?
You need to think.
You don't understand this, but the same cultural assumptions which brought you the Great Recession and analism, are also preventing you from doing anything about the recession and analism.
And that's the sorry truth.
I thank Warrior Omar for his Brave post and his Brave Life.
My hope and wish for him is, as I said, that he listen to the yearnings of his heart.
His Manly Heart.
And truly I wish that for all of you.
But I don't think you're capable of it.
Omar wrote to me and simultaneously donated.
Most of you have been lurking on this site for more than a decade -- and have never written or donated.
So what chance is there that you'll "listen to the yearnings of your heart?"
None.
Omar, for whatever reason, is a person of character.
In the Republic, which is primarily about the education of the people of the Republic, Plato understands that a properly run state, like Sparta's, can inculcate a certain level of morality into its citizens.
But that only a relative few will be capable of philosophy.
Your problem is that you don't live in a properly run state.
You live rather in a state which seeks to inculcuate not morality, but immorality --
and does it all too well.
Not only, then, are you incapable of philosophy --
but you're incapable of the most rudimentary sort of morality.
Well, you need to find some morality.
Which means God -- the Divine, the Good.
There's no morality without God -- and there's no better illustration of that plain human fact than analism itself, which is a stridently amoral and secular ideology.
As is, de facto, feminism.
Analism has, in the US alone, led to the deaths of 600,000 people.
Men and women.
And the analists have never, never, never taken responsibility for that.
And they never will.
So:
There are many analists in this world, and many, many feminists like Dee.
And just a few of you.
You'll either learn and put into practice what this word -- altruism -- means --
or, one way or another, you'll perish.
Bill Weintraub
January 24, 2011
© All material Copyright 2011 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.
Reply from:
Re: I love the female body but the cock is also wonderful
1-26-2011
I'm replying to the post... I was able to read all without any interruption. I'm always working and I only get a few mins alone.. I finally read it all at home while I was waiting for my wonderful girlfriend/wife and I must say it is a good read I didn't expect it to be like this...
I can't believe that woman [Dee].. To be like that.. She won't understand what is like.. To be a male.. And people like that there is no point.. And worrying about it and what she is saying it's just a waste of time... Women will never understand what guys go thru...that's a damn shame...
I'm happy to help Bill and his work.. And efforts to provide a place were guys can feel free to ask questions, and not feel like they will be looked at like people from other planets... And that's why I believe in donating to his work.
10 dollars a month is nothing.. 10 dollars anyone can give.. I rather give my 10 dollars to help Bill.. Then spend it on something useless that I don't need.
At least now I know if there is another guy out there.. I know he will find this site and it will help him feel better and at ease, in what he feels. It helped me..before I found this site my mind was going crazy I was looking up on google and this is what I was searching.. Gay thoughts and feeling for straight guys.. And I found nothing.. I felt like a cancer was spreading in my brain, and I was trying to find an answer to what I feel... Not knowing what I was looking for..
And now that I found this site I feel like it's normal and I'm not the only one.. And Bill I say is one of my heroes now. Because of his site I'm more in peace with myself and sanity.. Thank you Bill.. I don't know what else to say. I truly feel like alot of weight is gone and my mind can be at peace and I'm normal.. I'm happier then what I was a couple of weeks before I found this site.. Now I can move on, and Im proud to support Bill and his work..
Cock Warriors Rule!!
Reply from:
Re: I love the female body but the cock is also wonderful
1-27-2011
Welcome Warrior Omar,
It's great that you found the Alliance; and that through the Alliance and Bill, like me, you have started to get back your Manhood, and Warriorhood. Does it not feel great?
Of course these things are always inside us, all men have them, but social pressure makes us bury them, now though with the backing of our Alliance brothers we can let them come out with full force.
I agree with Bill, guys do look at each other, but my experience of this is if someone is seen looking, then (due to social convention) they look away, as if to say "I wasn't looking, honest" or "me? why would I look at you?"
Is it not great? I am a MAN not some fallible "gay man" and until November 2007 I was trapped in that box -- then Warrior Bill said some magic words and out I came.
Yes I can say my mind is a lot better especially since I came to understand that there is no conflict between me being a "Christian man" and a "Man who loves a man". In the same way there need not be any clash between the man who loves his woman, and the man who loves his man.
Warrior Omar, It pleases me, that you have shown such a fine example in both accepting the message of the Alliance, and deciding to donate every month. Omar's commitment means that he cares for that message, and for those receiving it and that they should continue to do so.
Thank you Warrior Omar, for your wonderful example, I just hope those reading your posting will jump to and respond accordingly.
It is always really good when a real WARRIOR and MAN joins us it will be an HONOUR to work with such a MAN as Omar.
With Warrior Love,
Brian.
and AND
Warriors Speak is presented by The Man2Man Alliance, an organization of men into
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© All material on this site Copyright 2001 - 2011 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.
It was my own innate understanding of the essentially Combative and Aggressive nature of Men, and my own instinctual relating of that to the testicles, which produced those fantasies and gave them so much power in my life.
In this Dialogue, written in the first century AD by Lucian but presenting an imagined conversation between the *sixth century BC* Athenian lawgiver Solon and a Scythian visitor to Athens named Anacharsis, we get some idea of what that training was like -- starting with Athenian kids, and then progressing to Spartan youth:
Anacharsis: And another thing, my dear Solon, why are those young men
acting in this way? Look, some of them are grappling and tripping each
other, others are choking their friends and twisting their limbs, rolling about in the mud and wallowing like pigs. But before they began to do this, I noticed they first took off their clothes, then put oil on themselves, and in a peaceful fashion took turns in rubbing each other. But now, experiencing some emotion I do not understand, they have lowered their heads and are crashing into each other, and butting their heads together like rams! And look! There is one who has just seized the other by the legs and thrown him down; then he flopped on him and did not allow him to get up, but shoved him down into the mud. And now he is finally twisting his legs around the other person's waist and choking him with his arm under his throat. The other is slapping him on the shoulder, trying to ask him, I suppose, not to choke him to death. They do not avoid getting covered with dirt even to save the oil, but on the contrary wipe it off, and smearing themselves with mud and rivers of perspiration they make themselves ridiculous, in my opinion, by sliding in and out of each other's hands like eels.
Others are acting in the same way in the open part of the courtyard.
However, these are not in the mud, but they have this deep sand in the pit which they sprinkle on themselves and each other, just like roosters, so that they cannot break out of their grasp, I imagine, since the sand decreases the slipperiness and offers a surer grip on a dry skin.
Others also covered with dust are standing up straight and striking and
kicking each other. See that one there! Poor fellow, he seems to be ready to spit out a mouthful of teeth considering how full of blood and sand his mouth is; he has got a blow to the jaw, as you can see for yourself. But the official there does not separate them and stop the fight -- at least I assume he is an official from his scarlet cloak. On the contrary he encourages them and cheers the one who struck that blow.
All around different people are all exercising: some raise their knees as if running, although they remain in the same place, and as they jump up they kick the air.
What I want to know is, what reason do they have for doing this? It seems to me these actions are almost insane, and there is no one who can easily persuade me that people who act like this have not lost all their senses.
[Solon explains that customs differ from one land to another. He then explains to Anacharsis what is happening.]
Solon: This place, dear Anacharsis, is what we call a gymnasion and it and is sacred to Lykeian Apollo. You can see his statue, leaning against a stele, holding his bow in his left hand. His right arm is bent above his head as if the artist were showing the God resting, as if he had completed some laborious task. As for those exercises in the nude, the one done in the mud is called wrestling. Those in the dust are also wrestling. Those who strike each other standing upright we call pankratiasts. We have other athletic events: we have contests in boxing, diskos, and the long jump, and the winner is considered superior to his fellows and takes the prize.
Anacharsis: These prizes of yours now; what are they?
Solon: At Olympia there is a crown of wild olive; at Isthmia, one of pine; at Nemea, one woven of celery; at the Pythian Games, laurel berries sacred to the god, and here at home at the Panathenaic Games, oil from olive trees which grow in the sacred precincts. What are you laughing at, Anacharsis? Do these prizes seem valueless to you?
[Solon explains the symbolic value of the prizes, justifies the pursuit of athletics, the education of the citizens. Then Anacharsis asks Solon to explain the government of Athens.]
Solon: It is not easy, my friend, to explain everything at once in concise form, but if you will take one thing at a time you will learn everything about our belief in the gods, as well as our attitude toward parents, marriage, or anything else.
I will now explain our theory about young men and how we treat them from the time when they begin to know the difference between right and wrong and are entering manhood and sustaining hardships, so that you may learn why we require them to undergo these exercises and force them to subject their bodies to toil, not just because of the athletic games and the prizes they may win there, for few of them have the ability to do that, but so that they may try to gain a greater good for the entire city and for themselves. For there is another contest set up for all good citizens and the crown is not made of pine nor of wild olive nor of celery, but is one which includes all of man's happiness, that is to say, freedom for each person individually and for the state in general: wealth, glory, pleasure in our traditional feast days, having the entire family safe from harm, and in a word, to have the best of all the blessings one could have from the gods.
All this happiness is woven into the crown to which I referred and is acquired in the contest to which these exhausting exercises lead.
[Solon goes into more detail about the training of young men and about the responsibility of the citizens.]
Solon: As for physical training, which you particularly wanted to hear about, we proceed as follows. When the boys reach an age when they are no longer soft and uncoordinated, we strip them naked. We do this because first, we think they should get used to the weather, learning to live with different seasons, so they are not bothered by the heat nor do they yield to the cold. Then we massage them with olive oil and condition the skin. For since we see that leather which is softened by olive oil does not easily crack and is much stronger, even though it is not alive, why should we not think that live bodies would benefit from oil? Next we have thought up different kinds of athletics and have appointed coaches for each type. We teach one how to box, another how to compete in the pankration, so that they can become used to hard work, to stand up to blows face to face, and not to yield through fear of injury.
This creates two valuable traits in our young men: it makes them brave in the face of danger and unsparing of their bodies, and it also makes them strong and vigorous. Those who wrestle and push against each other learn how to fall safely and spring up nimbly, to endure pushing, grappling, twisting, and choking, and to be able to lift their opponent off the ground. They are not learning useless skills but they get the one thing which is the first and most important thing in life: through this training their bodies become stronger and capable of enduring pain. There is another thing too which is not unimportant. From this training they acquire skills which they may need some day in war. For it is clear that if a man so trained grapples with an enemy, he will trip and throw him more quickly and if he is thrown he will know how to regain his feet as easily as possible. For we prepare our men, Anacharsis, for the supreme contest, war, and we expect to have much better soldiers out of young men who have had this training, that is, the previous conditioning and training of naked bodies, which makes them not only stronger and healthier, more agile and fit, but also causes them to outweigh their opponents.
You can see, I should think, the results of this, what they are like when armed, or even without weapons how they would strike terror in their enemies. Our troops are not fat, pale, and useless nor are they white and scrawny ... enervated by lying in the shade, simultaneously shivering and streaming with rivers of sweat, gasping beneath their helmets, particularly if the sun, as now, is burning with noontime heat. What use could people be who get thirsty and cannot endure dust; soldiers who panic if they see blood, who die of terror before they come close enough to throw their spears or to close with the enemy? But our troops have skin of high color, darkened by the sun, and faces like real men; they display great vigor, fire, and virility. They glow with good health, and are neither shriveled skeletons nor excessively heavy, but they have been carved to perfect symmetry; they have used up and sweated off useless and excess flesh, and that which is left is strong, supple, and free, and they vigorously keep this healthy condition. For just as the winnowers do with wheat, so our athletes do with their bodies, removing the chaff and the husks and leaving the grain in a clean pile.
Through training like this a man can't avoid being healthy and can stand up indefinitely under stress. Such a man would sweat only after some time, and he would seldom be seen to be ill. Suppose someone were to take two torches and throw one into the grain and the other into the straw and chaff -- you see, I am returning to the figure of the winnower. The straw, I think, would burst into flames much more quickly, but the grain would burn slowly with no large flames blazing up nor would it burn all at once, but it would smoulder slowly and eventually it too would be burned.
Neither disease nor fatigue could easily attack and overcome such a body or easily defeat it. For it has good inner resources which defend it against attacks from outside, so as not to let them in, neither does it admit the sun or the cold to its hurt. To avoid yielding to hardships, great vigor springs up within, something prepared long in advance and held in reserve for time of need. This vigor fills up at once and waters the body in a crisis and makes it strong for a long time. For the previous training in bearing strain and hardship does not weaken their strength but increases it, and when you fan it the fire burns stronger.
We train them to run, getting them to endure long distances as well as
speeding them up for swiftness in the sprints. This running is not done on a firm springy surface but in deep sand, where it is not easy to place one's foot forcefully and not to push off from it, since the foot slips against the yielding sand. We train them to jump over ditches, if they have to, or any other obstacles, and in addition we train them to do this even when they carry lead weights as large as they can hold. They also compete in the javelin throw for distance. In the gymnasium you also saw another athletic implement, bronze, circular, like a tiny shield with no bar or straps. You handled it as it lay there and expressed the view that it was heavy and hard to hold on to because it was so smooth. Well, they throw this up in the air both high and out, competing to see who can throw the longest and pass beyond the others. This exercise strengthens the shoulders and builds up the arms and legs.
As for this mud and dust, which originally seemed so amusing to you, my
friend, listen while I tell you why it is used. First, their fall will not be on unyielding dirt but they will fall safely on soft ground. Next, their slipperiness has to be greater when they sweat in the mud. You likened them to eels, but the facts are neither useless nor humorous: it adds not a little to strength of the sinews when they are forced to hold firmly to people in this condition when they are trying to slip away. Do not think it is easy to pick up a sweaty man in the mud, covered with oil and trying to get out of your arms. All these skills, as I said earlier, are useful in combat, if it were necessary to pick up a wounded friend and carry him easily to safety or to seize an enemy and bring him back in your arms. And for this reason we train them beyond what is necessary, so that when they have practiced hard tasks they may do smaller ones with much greater facility.
We believe the dust is used for the opposite reason than the oil is, that is, so that a competitor may not slip out of his opponent's grasp. For after they have been trained in the mud to hold fast to something which is escaping from them because of its slipperiness, they then practice escaping out of the arms of their opponent, no matter how impossibly firm they may be held. Furthermore when this dust is used liberally it checks the perspiration and makes their strength last longer and furnishes protection against harm from drafts which otherwise attack the body when the pores are open. Besides, the dust rubs off the accumulation of dirt and makes the skin gleam.
I should dearly like to stand one of those white-skinned fellows who live in the shade beside one of our boys who work out in the Lykeion, and after I had washed off the dust and the mud, ask you which one you would like to resemble. For I know that you would choose at first glance, without hesitation, even without putting either through any tests, the one which is solid and hard rather than soft, weak, and pale, because what little blood he has has been withdrawn into the interior of his body.
[Anacharsis then ridicules the idea that athletic training could be useful in war. Why not save your strength, he asks. Solon explains that strength cannot be saved like a bottle of wine; it must be constantly used.]
Anacharsis: I just don't understand what you said, Solon. It is too intellectual for me and requires a sharp mind and keen insight. But above all, tell me this, why, in the Olympic Games and at Isthmia and Delphi and elsewhere, where so many competitors, you say, assemble to see these young men compete, you never have a contest with weapons but you bring them before the spectators all naked and exhibit them getting kicked and punched, and then, if they have won, give them berries and wild olives? It would be worth knowing why you do this.
Solon: My dear Anacharsis, we do this because we think that their enthusiasm for athletics will increase if they see that those who excel at them are honored and are presented to crowds of Greeks by heralds. Because they are to appear stripped before so many people, they try to get into good condition, so that when they are naked they will not be ashamed, and each one works to make himself capable of winning. As for the prizes, as I said earlier, they are not insignificant: to be praised by the spectators, to be a recognized celebrity, and to be pointed out as the best of one's group. As a result of these prizes, many of the spectators who are of the right age for competition go away completely in love with courage and struggle. If someone should remove love of glory from our lives, what good would we ever achieve, Anacharsis, or who would strive to accomplish some shining deed? But now it is possible for you to imagine from these games what sort of men these would be under arms, fighting for fatherland and children and wives and temples, when they show so much desire for victory in competing for laurel berries and wild olives.
Furthermore, how would you feel if you should observe fights between
quails and between roosters here among us, and see the great interest
which is shown in them? Wouldn't you laugh, particularly if you should learn that we do this in accordance with our laws and all men of military age are instructed to be present and to see these birds fight until they are exhausted? But it is no laughing matter, for eagerness for danger creeps insensibly into their souls so that they try not to seem less courageous and bold than the roosters nor to give in too soon because of injury or fatigue or any other distress.
As for trying them in armed combat and seeing them receive wounds --
never! It is brutal and dreadfully wrong, and in addition it is economically unfeasible to destroy the bravest, whom we could better use against our enemies.
Since you tell me, Anacharsis, that you expect to travel to the rest of
Greece, if you get to Sparta, remember not to laugh at them nor think that they have no purpose when they compete in a theater, rushing together and striking each other, fighting over a ball, or when they go into a place surrounded by water [known as Plantanistas, or Plane-Tree Grove], choose up sides, and fight as if in actual war, although as naked as we Athenians are, until one team drives the other out of the enclosure into the water, the Sons of Herakles beating the Sons of Lykurgos or vice versa; after this contest there is peace and no one would strike another. In particular, do not laugh if you see them being whipped at the altar, streaming with blood, with mothers and fathers standing by, not at all bothered by what is happening but on the contrary threatening them if they do not hold up under the blows, urging them to bear up under the pain as long as possible, and to be strong under this hideous treatment. To tell the truth, many have died in these contests, not thinking it manly to yield before the eyes of their friends and relatives while they are still alive, no, not even to flinch. You will see honors paid to statues of people like this erected at public expense by the state of Sparta.
~ translated by Sweet.
My name is Omar I just found your site, and I'm so happy that I found it.
I'm a straight male
23 years old with a girlfriend that I love with all my heart but ever since I was a young boy I would dream about doing frot with another boy.
I never knew why, never seen gay sex
when I was young so I didn't know where this ideas come from.
I thought it was just me and now that I'm older I feel more like wanting to explore my feelings about frot.
I dont think I'm gay
I love the female body, but I feel like the cock is also a wonderful thing males have.
reading your site, and seeing that I'm not the only male out there with the same feelings is great I feel now that nothing is wrong with me and what I feel is normal,
for that I thank you.
I'm not going to cheat on my girlfriend, I love her, that being said I'm very faithful to our relationship so I'm not here to find a buddy, but if I do. Do you think that would be appropriate?
a male partner to frot?
I'm also writing this to let you know I will be donating every month 10 dollars to help with the site expense,
I want to become a member of The Man2Man Alliance and I also want to claim my premium that you have on your site.
you said in your site I'm suppose to claim that premium membership via email to you so here I am.
Great -- that's the right thing to do.
telling you a little about myself and letting you know I'll be donating every month to help.
I want to be a cock warrior and a member even though I wont find a male partner
at least I can help someone else too
thank you for reading this Bill
Thank you so much Bill for this words.
They made me feel alot better about what I feel.
I feel good knowing that I'm a man. Not a gay man not a straight man but a man, man.
I will be pledging via credit card, every month on the month.
I totally understand that some other guy out there will see the site and all the hard work you made will help them as it did me.
You have no idea how much more better I feel.
I understand what you mean that I can have a male male partner and male female partner, but I don't think my girlfriend/wife would understand.
Thats very understandable for me as well.
I would love to meet a male frot buddy to experience what you and many others have.
I have never been with another man,
so I'm a little nervous.
That's normal I guess,
and since I have a girlfriend I don't want to lose her.
So I'm torn between, the love I have for her, and what I feel, I must do.
I have read some stories about married man who have been in the same place and have a frot buddy.
I hope that one day that would be me.
I'm very happy I found your site,
I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity.
thank you Bill.
I'll post a little about myself in the youth section of the frot club, since I'm young and all maybe someone My age and maybe going thru the same thing would meet up here in LA.
Thank you again and thank you so much to replying
I feel good knowing that I'm a man. Not a gay man not a straight man but a man, man.
You have no idea how much more better I feel. . . . I'm very happy I found your site, I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity.
I would love to meet a male frot buddy to experience what you and many others have. I have never been with another man, so I'm a little nervous. That's normal I guess, and since I have a girlfriend I don't want to lose her. So I'm torn between, the love I have for her, and what I feel, I must do. I have read some stories about married man who have been in the same place and have a frot buddy. I hope that one day that would be me.
[The Greeks] didn't consider male-male relations incompatible with concurrent male-female relations or marriage. . .
Women are more than baby factories, personal attendants, cooks, maids, and the occasional arm candy for social gatherings. Women are a world of undiscovered countries, full of hidden treasures, pleasures and passions, waiting, wanting to be explored and enjoyed and delighted in. Meet us naked on your wrestling mats . . .
men need deep emotional connections with other men, not just their wives
The heterosexual society cares only for women. It sees men only as a problematic group that comes in the way of what is called women's rights.
The heterosexual society cares only for women. It sees men only as a problematic group that comes in the way of what is called women's rights.
I am wanting to experience a man to man relationship. I have never been with a man. I chose to lead a normal life, to live the American dream, and to try and deny my attraction to men. I am a married dad, and enjoying a good life. But my denial has not worked of course, so now I would like to meet someone in a similar situation. I want to feel the passion two men can experience by being together. I am interested in cuddling, kissing, stroking, and to enjoy the male body.
I'm very happy I found your site, I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity.
Often I sleep with a teddy bear stuffed inside my tee shirt, so I can sleep with bear fur pressed against my chest all night long.
As recently as the Victorian era, "Men wrote matter-of-factly about retiring to bed with a male roommate, 'and in each other's arms did friendship sink peacefully to sleep'."
I'm very happy I found your site, I'm sure you hear this all the time but, you save my sanity.
I want to be a cock warrior and a member even though I wont find a male partner at least I can help someone else to . . .
who reject anal penetration, promiscuity, and effeminacy
among men who have sex with men
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