Bill Weintraub

Re: Frot Wrestle

hey joe

thanks for posting

if a guy meets you in hotel room, gets hard wrestlin you, then grinds his hard cock on yours all night long, he's not straight

he may be straight-identified and he may really love women

but he's not straight

he's just a normal, average, everyday guy who's got same-sex needs and desires just like virtually every other normal, average, everyday guy

we want to be clear about that

because, as we say in An Introduction to Frot and The Man2Man Alliance, the myth of gay and straight makes life difficult for men in both communities

men who self-identify as gay think they have to get penetrated, act effeminate, and suppress their erotic feelings toward women

and men who self-identify as straight suppress their same-sex feelings and beat up on themselves for having them

both sets of behaviors are "homophobic" -- they buy into the idea that homosexuality is wrong or bad or immoral

it's not

it's natural

but so long as you and the men around you think that homosexuality isn't natural -- you'll have trouble finding partners

one of the ways to alleviate that trouble is to publicize our sites

by posting our URLs

http://www.heroichomosex.org

http://www.man2manalliance.org

wherever you can

since starting these sites i've seen a lot of change, and i'm confident that we'll see a lot more

but the pace of that change is in the hands of the people reading this post

whether society acknowledges the truth about men, sex, wrestling, and cock2cock in six months or six years --

is up to you

Joe

Re: Frot Wrestle

6-11-2003

Bill,

Thanks for the reply. I have been, and still am, confused about my sexuality. I don't like anal sex. Never have and have never participated in it. I do, of course, like nude wrestling with the maximum amount of frot.

Thank you for this opportunity to speak and read what other's think.

Joe

Bill Weintraub

Re: Frot Wrestle

6-11-2003

hi joe

why are you confused?

what you wrote was:

I have been, and still am, confused about my sexuality. I don't like anal sex. Never have and have never participated in it. I do, of course, like nude wrestling with the maximum amount of frot.

i don't like anal sex either

like you, i like nude wrestling with the max amount of frot, and so do a lot of other guys who visit and contribute to the site

nude wrestling with max frot has been my fantasy since i was a kid

so to me it's normal and not confusing

however, two things were confusing to me earlier in my life

first confusion:

when i was a kid, i thought any sort of homosex was wrong, and that "homosexuals" were all like Liberace -- limp-wristed eunuchs who couldn't have sex with anyone

i mean, would you have wanted to wrestle Liberace?

i didn't

eventually -- when i was 24 -- i came out and discovered that most men who have sex with men -- are just men

some of them are effeminate -- but in my experience that's not how God created them -- it's how they become to fit in to gay culture

i've seen that happen many times, and many guys have talked about it here on the site

second confusion:

after i'd been out for a few years, i discovered that guys were pressuring and expecting me to have anal "sex"

fortunately, i came out before that became an overpowering expectation

and i knew from my own experience that there had been a time when anal was just one choice from a sexual smorgasbord consisting primarily of oral, frot, and JO

so i was able to resist -- more or less -- the pressure to do anal

nevertheless, it took me a long time to figure out that the pressure to do anal and the pressure to be straight were the same sort of pressure

they were both a demand that i conform to someone else's sexual expectations

eventually, i wrote about my experiences and was published

a lot of guys read what i had written, and wrote to me via email to say

"hey -- you told my story -- i'm just like you"

at first, those guys were all gay guys

but then some straight-identified guys started writing too

and that was a real eye-opener

because like a lot of other "gay" men, i had begun thinking of straight-identified guys as being another species -- a different order of humanity from gay guys

that's not true

guys are guys, and men have far more in common with each other than men and women do

and to say that is not misogynist

that's just how it is

so now, after loving and losing to AIDS a gay guy, i'm living with and loving a previously straight-identified "bi" guy

and he is "str8" -- women really turn him on

but so do i

so:

life is a series of reality checks

do men who have sex with men have to have anal sex?

no

do men who have sex with women also have sex with men?

yes

do a lot of those men like frot?

yes

do men get turned on by fighting?

yes

is that surprising?

no

there's a link between sex and aggression

and it's not complicated

fighting produces a rush of adrenaline -- and testosterone

of course it makes a difference what sort of fight it is

for example, one of our guys who's an amateur wrestler says he doesn't get turned on during a match -- he's just trying to survive and if possible prevail

but:

i just got an email from a guy who says he was a pro boxer and that for him there was always an erotic element to being in the ring

i'm hoping he'll give me permission to post his emails

but what he said is not news -- at least not to me

nor to my lover Patrick -- who wrote about the erotic charge he experienced in a really fierce kick-boxing bout he had when he was married

so fighting is often erotic for the guys in the fight -- and for the guys watching

and wrestling nude, and giving your cock a chance to rub against another guy's cock -- is guaranteed to turn you on

because that's genital rubbing -- and that's what sex is

even hetero sex is the rubbing of erectile tissue against erectile tissue

so whether it's male-female or male-male, when you rub your genitals against someone else's -- you'll get turned on

your body is hard-wired to do that and enjoy it

Joe, wrestling and frot are normal

that the religious right doesn't think so and the buttfuck boyz don't think so -- is not my problem

and it's not yours either

it's their problem, they're wrong, and eventually they'll get over it

but it may take awhile

in the meantime, you have a right to your own life, and i hope you'll find another man with whom you can enjoy it

best to you good buddy

PS

when i say Cockrub Warriors Rule in these posts, i don't mean guys who wrestle or box or do a martial art

though those things can be very good

a "warrior" on this site, however, is a man who rejects anal and promiscuity and has the courage to be true to and stand up for what he believes about men and sex

so -- the way to save your life is to witness to the truth of your life to other people

and that's what a warrior does

i know a lot of guys don't understand that

but it's true

Don F

Re: Frot Wrestle

6-13-2002

It's great to read how guys with strong male identities find their way toward a M2M experience.

Bill wrote above:

"fighting produces a rush of adrenaline -- and testosterone"

I would add that so do sports competitions. Guys get that "rush" naturally from this kinda stuff.

Add to that the closeness and comraderie of common experiences and you sometimes get a formula for sexual expression that is both honestly and strongly male-identified.

Long before any shared sexual experience, this sort of excitement resulted in physical arousal for me. After a baseball game, or even sometimes after just practice, I would get home so wound-up, that masturbating was the only way to de-stress and relieve those tensions. As a kid, the most ridiculous memory was the time getting home after a game I layed down on the bed in full uniform, pushed my fielders mitt under me, and started grinding away in a weird sort of euphoric desperation. But I got so carried away during the orgasm, one of my cleats ripped the bedspread and I was majorly bummed afterward. True story. No shit.

Whatever the competition, I think the hormones generated are similar. Buds find comfort with each other, sometimes moving toward an M2M sexual union that is both honestly felt and pure of heart.

Only recently has there been publicity on pro-sports figures who have acknowledged their M2M identities. That made news. But there are countless others, even High School or college guys who will forever remain unknown, but who have quietly shared M2M sexual experiences with a teammate----celebrating those strong masculine feelings together as equals.

Labels don't accurately describe what seems to be an inherently male response to the stress of shared experience leading naturally to sexual validation between buds.

Frot leaves GUYS feeling like GUYS together.

That's why these discussions are so important.

Don F