men who like to have sex
with men



men who like to have sex with men


I started to put into practice a phrase Bill uses, as a way of describing how I talk about my cocktocock web buddies. I have been amazed at how positive the reaction has been from my "gay" male friends.

I wanted to post this up as it was a real blast when guys reacted with "yeah ... that sounds more like me than 'gay ' ..."

The network which is being nurtured on this site is for me crystalising the beginning of a process of recapitulation for gay men. That is to say ... if we came out of legislative and cultural subdugation ... we incarnated a culture and a set of life and sexual values in a hurrry. Our loves and friends were taken from us by an illness previously unseen and unknown.

Clearly we are open to reinvent ourselves again. Progress. Transform. Take the best and move on.

We know that everything is small. Every twist of language we use. Every comment we make on the web. It is small. Every time we change our adjectives and say 'yeah that guy who likes to have sex with men' ... sometimes .. all the time ... whatever.

Due to the stimulus from this site and my interaction with Bill I have been doing some reading. Maybe one of the resonant and powerful aspects of the language which is used around cocktocock, frottage, body to body, non anal, non emasculating sex is MALE >>> MEN. The word 'gay' seems flaccid in comparison.

None of this implies any mysogyny.

This site and this dialectic has spurred me to know more ... question further ... the concepts and preconceptions which are caught up with and communicated through our 'symbol' words. ie: words which have given meaning beyond their true literal meaning.

'Men who like to have sex with men' ... I found it rolled off the toungue real easy. I loved the smiles I got from firends and acquaintances who identified with my given meaning.

Big cocktocock rub


Re: men who like to have sex with men


Hey cockster I agree, 'Men who like to have sex with men' is a complete and compact statement about who we are and what we like. The term "gay" according to my old "Oxford" denotes an emotion, as in cheerful or light-hearted, or an appearance as in flashiness. Now that definition of "gay" hardly applies to me or any of us I'd be quite confident in saying. So yes you're right I'm not "gay", I'm a HOMOSEX MAN, and darn proud of who I am too!


Bill Weintraub

Re: men who like to have sex with men


Today I've heard on this board and via email from three very strong men: the Cockster, David McQuarrie, and bojneon, the founder of the yahoo group Black Dicks Rub Together -- who says he hopes to post in here soon, and I look forward to reading his post.

All three of these men have told me that they will never give up, that they will never let go of this issue of how men who like to have sex with men are defined and portrayed.

If I were the buttfuck boyz, I'd be worried.

And if I were those gay establishment and media moguls who've done such a good job of NOT reporting on us and NOT acknowledging us for so many years, I'd be rethinking my strategy.

Because wherever there's oppression, there's resistance. And our resistance is growing.

And we are not, like they hoped we would, going away.

Instead we're becoming stronger and stronger and stronger.

And, just like, other men will have to listen to the truth of our lives and our loves.

Analists -- like all men who like to have sex with men -- have to face some basic facts about human anatomy.

When a man and a woman have "traditional" hetero sex, there are two elements to their union:

One is that it's genital to genital, that is penis to vagina/clitoris.

The other is that it's penetrative -- the man penetrates the woman.

Men who have sex with men have a choice: they can penetrate, in which case the sex can't be genital to genital, but will be genital to anus.

Or they can have genital to genital sex -- Frot.

The genitals are the generators of erotic pleasure and erotic energy.

The anus is not.

Men who have sex with men cannot change these basic anatomical facts. They can have sex genitally, with equal pleasure for both partners. Or they can mimic straight people, but with a severe inequality in what the partners feel.

Nothing any analist can say or do will change that.

Nor can the analists change the fact that at present, the man doing the penetrating -- the so-called top -- has to either wear latex, substantially reducing his pleasure, or risk exposing himself and his partner to a rich variety of diseases.

To say that is not to fearmonger, nor to shame gay sex.

It's simply telling it like it is.

Frottage is genital-genital sex.

Anal is not.

And it never will be.

Regarding the way we describe or name ourselves:

I was and always will be a Gay Liberationist. Gay Liberation is a wonderful philosophy.

But I've moved away from using the word "gay" to describe myself, simply because it's attached to a culture and a way of having sex that doesn't accurately describe me.

Minorities tend to go through changes in self-description: from, for example, people of color to Negro to Black to African-American.

Were or are any of those words 100% satisfactory to the people to whom they're applied?


Among men who have sex with men, the word "gay" has never been completely embraced.

Some African-Americans feel that the word and the culture it represents are too white, and use the letters "sgl," for same-gender-loving, instead.

Some younger men feel the word "gay," is too establishment, and use the rebellious term "queer" instead -- though I'm not wild about "queer," because "queer" means "odd," and there's nothing odd about men having sex with men.

And of course there are many men who are bi or who consider themselves str8, but like to have sex with other men too.

Personally, I like the term m2m because of its connection with martial arts, wrestling, and boxing.

But whatever we call ourselves -- gay, queer, bi, str8, sgl, m2m, or men who like having sex with men -- and I agree that "men who like having sex with men" is the most accurate -- we're united in this club in our love of frot and in our determination to break the deathgrip of anal penetration on the lives of other men who have sex with men.

The Cockster also pointed to the masculine component of his self-description, and added that no misogyny is implied.

That's right. To be proud of and enjoy being a man does not mean you hate women.

Unfortunately, there are those in the feminist movement, both women and gay men, who believe that if it has a penis, it has to be bad. (And many don't stop at human beings -- dogs and horses included -- no joke.)

But that's just another form of bigotry.

We love being men, and being men who like to have sex with other men.

We love our maleness, and that of our partners.

And we particularly love making love with our cocks -- cock2cock and dick2dick.

For us, phallic mating is the ultimate male union:

Uniquely male, and uniquely ours.


Don F

Re: men who like to have sex with men


As always, Bill has a masterful skill with words that succinctly and accurately sum up how we all feel.


I can't think of anything that describes true homosex better, or indicates clearly how buddies can experience that SHARED masculinity through genital/genital coupling.

When penis and testicles are joined, it is a quintessentially MALE intercourse, with sexual "communion" felt by both partners directly through their cocks, and being stimulated by totally masculine contact. No feminization, no penetration, only true male/male SHARED excitement. Better still, partners achieve a natural, fully male union when they climax as MEN, offering up their semen as tribute to each other's masculinity. A unique combo of strength and tenderness at the same time.

Nothing more beautifully can describe how "we love our maleness, and that of our partners."

We may continue trying to find key words to focus how we think of ourselves, but Bill has said it in a way guys can relate to so well.

And most "gay" guys are just regular-guys seeking union with other regular-guy types, not the femme/butch stereotypes we've all seen in bars, etc.

Lets continue to define ourselves as males, so everyone knows where we stand.

Add a reply to this discussion

Back to Personal Stories


Warriors Speak is presented by The Man2Man Alliance, an organization of men into Frot

To learn more about Frot, ck out What's Hot About Frot

Or visit our FAQs page.

Warriors Speak Home

Cockrub Warriors Site Guide

The Man2Man Alliance

Heroic Homosex

Frot Men


Frot Club

Personal Stories

| What's Hot About Frot | Hyacinthine Love | THE FIGHT | Kevin! | Cockrub Warriors of Mars | The Avenger | Antagony | TUFF GUYZ | Musings of a BGM into Frot | Warriors Speak | Ask Sensei Patrick | Warrior Fiction | Frot: The Next Sexual Revolution |
| Heroes Site Guide | Toward a New Concept of M2M | What Sex Is |In Search of an Heroic Friend | Masculinity and Spirit |
| Jocks and Cocks | Gilgamesh | The Greeks | Hoplites! | The Warrior Bond | Nude Combat | Phallic, Masculine, Heroic | Reading |
| Heroic Homosex Home | Cockrub Warriors Home | Heroes Home | Story of Bill and Brett Home | Frot Club Home |
| Definitions | FAQs | Join Us | Contact Us | Tell Your Story |

© All material on this site Copyright 2001 - 2010 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.