Bill Weintraub

Re: need help from cock brothers out there

5-22-2006

In putting up this post, I'm taking the chance that "rob" is telling the truth: that there's a divorce, that he feels isolated, emasculated, and in need of male friends.

And I'm putting it up because, assuming Rob's telling the truth, I'm sure there are other married men out there who will relate to Rob's situation.

However, the reality is that I've never heard of Rob, he's never posted on this board before, and he's never donated.

Striking isn't it?

He posted on this board, so he HAD to have seen those two huge appeals for donations which have been sitting at the top of the list for a week.

And he did nothing.

Yet now he calls upon his "warrior brothers" for help.

The question is Rob -- why should your "fellow warriors" help you -- when you've NEVER helped them?

Have you ever read our defintion of Warrior Altruism?

Warrior altruism is a form of *reciprocal* altruism.

Reciprocal.

Give and take and give back in return.

NOT take, take, take.

This wanting help while offering NOTHING in return is characteristic of most of the married men who use this site.

They drop in when they need support, get what THEY need, and then disappear.

Without, usually, doing a thing for anyone else.

The guy calling himself "Den Shanahan," who posted very passionately on this board under the header ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS? was typical in that regard.

He showed up full of fire from having seen Brokeback, called people who don't donate "buttfuckers," termed donating a "moral imperative," and then disappeared.

That was in late January.

Never heard from again.

Patrick, my bi husband, says married men behave that way because their women are so emotionally demanding.

And that may well be.

But the point of this site is to help MEN be MEN again.

Not to be co-dependent with these "men" in their feminization.

Historically and cross-culturally MEN have spent the bulk of their time with other MEN.

Has nothing to do with "sexual orientation."

Has to do with the need of MEN for the company of other MEN.

I hope that every man who writes to Rob offers not just support, but asks him what HE's been doing to SUPPORT his fellow men.

His "warrior brothers."

Including this Warrior Site.

If he doesn't donate, I don't care what he says in his emails, I don't care how persuasive he is -- if he doesn't donate, chances are he's a liar and a fraud.

And even if he isn't lying, at the very least, and looked at objectively, he's a traitor to those same "warrior brothers" he's called upon for help.

Time to grow up guys.

You cannot credibly call upon your fellows for help --

Unless you've been helping your fellows.

And this man has not.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Bill Weintraub

Re: need help from cock brothers out there

5-22-2006

PS

This is something I wrote sometime back about a man Tony.

Tony too is, he says, getting a divorce;

and, he claims, child custody is in dispute.

So he wrote me, in the preemptory tone that a parvenu uses with a domestic, demanding that I delete his Frot Club posts.

Guys -- If you post in Frot Club, and you tire of your post, it's your responsiblity to delete it.

There's a delete mechanism and it works.

If you have a problem, and you ask me politely, I'll help you delete.

Politely -- that's the deal.

Now, the email which Tony sent then and others he sent in the past were those fancy-style corporate emails which included, not just a picture of Tony, but an extensive list of his corporations and even a philanthropy which he claims to fund.

Which suggested very strongly that Tony is financially comfortable -- to put it mildly.

Yet Tony too is one the legion of guys who's NEVER DONATED.

Like I often say, it's appalling.

Now, he finds himself in a jam.

Not just because he's getting a divorce.

But because he's a bi guy with a secret sexual life with men who's seeking custody of his kids.

And all he can think to do now is try to cover his tracks.

How is a judge likely to look at Tony?

Probably, as a gay man who's been using his wife and kids as a "beard" -- a way of concealing his homosexuality.

That will not help Tony in court.

Suppose that for the more than two years Tony's been on this site, he'd been HELPING us get out our message that it's NORMAL AND NATURAL for straight-identified men to have sex with men.

Might society and the courts view him differently?

YES.

That's how it works.

You change the cultural model and perceptions change.

That's what we call a "paradigm shift," and it happens all the time.

There was a paradigm shift around smoking:

Once considered glamourous, now considered yucky.

There was a paradigm shift around anti-gay violence:

Once considered defensible in certain situations, now considered beyond the pale.

Social mores change.

If you work to change them.

I know.

I'm one of the many many committed activists who worked on the issue of anti-gay violence.

I started in 1979.

The sea change in attitude towards anti-gay violence didn't come until the late 90s and Matt Shepard's murder.

Almost 20 years.

But we did have change.

And the millions of hours of work put in by thousands of dedicated activists created that change.

Shepard's murder was the "tipping point," as some like to say nowadays.

But you don't get to that tipping point without A LOT OF HARD WORK.

The sort of work that guys like Tony and the rest of you just don't want to do.

Too bad.

Truth is, bisexual / married men are now on the frontline of sexual issues in the US.

A lot of the gay stuff has been settled in the public mind.

Not all -- but a lot.

Same-sex sex has been de-criminalized and there are now civil rights protections in many areas of the country.

And most people either have a gay family member or know a gay person at work or in some other setting.

Gay people have become part of the social landscape.

But bisexuals are still viewed with great suspicion.

Like I say, the assumption, supported by popular writers like Dan Savage, is that they're actually using their wife and kids as a front -- a way of hiding their homosexuality.

And that has implications in the real world of marriage, divorce, and custody.

I sincerely do not want anyone to lose custody of his kids.

Or go through a messy divorce.

But bi / straight-identified married guys like Tony and Rob need to understand that when they refuse to support us --

They're hurting THEMSELVES.

Tony can delete his Frot Club posts.

But he can't delete the truth of his life.

He'll never be able to do that.

If he were able to do that, he wouldn't be in the predicament he's in now.

What Tony can do -- what all of you can do --

is change the way you think of yourself -- so that you're no longer, in Robert Loring's phrase, defeated in your own mind;

and change the way society perceives you.

But to do those things you'll have to take action.

This is the list:

• Donate.

• Put a link to this site -- www.Man2ManAlliance.org/ -- on every online profile you have and anywhere else appropriate on the web;

• Come out to your family and friends as a man into Frot;

• Participate in the Regional Chapters

I can't force you to do any of those things.

All I can tell you is that Tony and now Rob are getting a divorce.

And they'd be FAR better off now if they'd done something besides lurk in Frot Club for the last two years.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

rob

Re: need help from cock brothers out there

5-25-2006

Yes, it's real, I was asking for help in a time of emotional, not financial need. Thanks for nothing. I won't be back.

Bill Weintraub

Re: need help from cock brothers out there

5-28-2006

"I was asking for help in a time of emotional, not financial need."

What a cop-out.

How does your asking for emotional help negate my right to ask for financial help to keep this site and this Alliance alive?

Particularly since your only interest in the site is exploiting it to fill YOUR emotional need.

You suggest that it must be an exact tit for tat.

If you ask for emotional help, all you'll give back is emotional help.

But you haven't done that either.

When have you helped someone else on this site?

NEVER.

What a bunch of petulant crap.

Why can't you say, I understand your point, and I'm sorry I haven't been more supportive of the other men, but I intend to try.

Because you don't intend to try.

Because the only person who matters to you -- is you.

"Thanks for nothing."

You're welcome.

NOTHING is what you've contributed to this site.

And nothing is what you get back.

NOTHING.

Because that's what you deserve.

"I won't be back."

Good.

That way you don't use up scarce resources which are needed for other guys.

"I won't be back."

More petulance.

It's that parvenu tone -- as though he's talking to a waiter.

This guy is a spoiled brat.

It has to be about him -- 24 / 7.

If it's about anyone else -- he's outta there.

"Poor ME, poor ME, poor ME."

Like Andriote in "I used to report on AIDS; now I have AIDS"

ME -- That's the only person he thinks about.

No wonder his wife's divorcing him.

I wonder how many of you would be stupid enough to sleep with him.

I wonder.

What did Robert say?

Brotherhoods do not exist on a one-way street. This is difficult for some to understand today because in our modern world the general attitude is "It's all about ME....wonderful ME!" But, it is NOT all about "ME"!! It's about US!! So to be a part of "US" one must be supportive of his Brothers and one must be supportive of the "fortress" under which the Brotherhood meets and communes with each other. Brotherhood is NOT about taking. Brotherhood is about mutual GIVING.

Right.

"Brotherhood is about mutual GIVING."

I'm not "supporting" a man like Rob because to do so would make me and the Alliance co-dependent in his selfishness, stupidity, and short-sightedness.

I'm not doing that.

Any time someone appears on here and claims to be a Warrior and Warrior Brother, I ask, What have you done to merit those words?

Because the reality is that we've missed opportunity after opportunity over the last six years because of the selfishness and shortsightedness of men who call themselves warriors and in reality are just jerk off artists.

"Brotherhood is about mutual GIVING."

Virtually none of the "men" who use this site understand that.

Who knows why?

We make all sorts of excuses for them:

They're defeated in their own minds; they've compromised and failed repeatedly in their lives; they fear the strength, courage, and integrity which could be theirs if they'd act to reclaim them.

We say they've been feminized -- unable to take the first step towards reclaiming the MAN within.

Is anyone reading this interested in taking that first step?

Or helping his brothers take that step?

Here's the link -- just in case:

DONATE

Personally, I think we should stop making excuses for the non-donors and just describe them as they are:

Self-centered, selfish, short-sighted ASSHOLES.

Who are dragging this effort down to defeat.

Cause at the end of the day, that's what they are and that's what they're doing.

At the same time, the people they're hurting the most -- as I keep telling them -- are themselves.

Prime example:

Rob, our petulant divorcee, said he felt "emasculated."

No kidding.

Here's something Robert Loring posted today in response to my message thread titled from longhouse to hidey-hole:

A man's home USED to be his Castle but now it's his wife's palace. It is now the males prison! Home used to be a place of refuge for many men but now it's a place they can hardly wait to leave so they can get out with the boys. It's almost like some of them have to plan their ESCAPE as they sneak around their wives. I know many men who have NO space of their own in their homes and they are miserable and unhappy because their wives rule over them. They are not husbands. They are slaves and psychological male eunuchs. They are like little boys who must ask Mommy (ie: wife) and get her permission before they even wipe their butts. Somewhere on this forum Bill commented about how many men are just BOYS. They are mentally still boys yet in men's bodies. I think that is very sad but factual unfortunately. When will such boys become MEN? When will MEN conquer their castles again? When will MEN no longer be afraid to establish primary relationships with other MEN and to hell with all the HOMOPHOBIA? Answer: At the rate males are going today the answer is NEVER!!

"I know many men who have NO space of their own in their homes and they are miserable and unhappy because their wives rule over them. They are not husbands. They are slaves and psychological male eunuchs."

"psychological male eunuchs"

Might it have helped Rob to read those words?

Yes.

But he's not willing to put $5 a month towards the effort of keeping those words online.

So he doesn't get to read them.

Nor, if it was up to him, would anyone else.

That's what I mean by a short-sighted, selfish, self-centered --

ASSHOLE.

Let me give you another example.

There's a married, he says, guy who works for the Salvation Army in Canada -- very homophobic outfit.

He showed up a few months ago and started posting in Frot Club.

And he posted over and over and over again.

He replied to every reply.

Finally I said to him -- Please stop posting.

Use email to reply to people.

He was using Frot Club far in excess of anyone else, and that eats up bandwidth.

Not fair.

And I pointed out to him that he'd never donated.

This was his reply:

"If i ever make a connection I will donate immediately."

That's like telling the American Cancer Society that if there's ever a cure -- I'll donate immediately.

Again, all he cares about is himself.

He complains about having problems connecting.

But before you can connect with people -- you have to connect.

He doesn't have a clue about that.

He complains about the shortage of partners -- as do all these guys.

But doesn't see HE'S A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM.

These guys will come up with endless excuses for not donating.

Yesterday, someone wrote me that he liked FROT but didn't like the "bashing" of anal "sex."

This is a bashing:

I know what a bashing looks like because I've done a lot of anti-violence and self-defense work.

We don't bash.

What we do is use words -- not clubs or baseball bats -- to tell the truth about anal:

There's always fecal matter present during anal penetration.

TRUE.

Anal is the highest risk "sex" act two men can perform.

TRUE.

There's no genital tissue in the anus or rectum.

TRUE.

Virtually every STD which afflicts gay men is transmitted through anal, including the most deadly: HIV, anal HPV, hep C, syphilis, gonorrhea, and LGV.

TRUE.

Everything we say about anal is true -- including that it's degrading and humiliating.

That's why "men" into anal refer to themselves as pussyboys and bottombitches and asscunts and sluts and whores.

That's why.

Other people claim we're bashing the effeminate.

This is a bashing:

I know what a bashing looks like because unlike our critics, I've actually done a lot of anti-violence and self-defense work.

We don't bash.

What we do is use words -- not baseball bats or clubs -- to truthfully and accurately describe a self-oppressive behavior: effeminacy.

Let's talk about violence and the effeminate.

Many effeminate men are "anally receptive" and allow themselves to be penetrated anally.

As we've truthfully and accurately described, EVERY ACT of anal penetration does extreme violence to the delicate tissues of the anus and rectum, thus allowing easy entrance into the bloodstream of deadly pathogens.

In addition, EVERY ACT of anal weakens the anal sphincter and risks other mechanical damage, such as fissures or tears.

What happens as a result?

I've described how in my life I have, on occasion, slept with effeminate guys.

One of those guys, whom I slept with in the early 70s, died in 1999.

He died of AIDS.

He was effeminate, he got fucked up the butt, and he died.

When he was with me, he didn't get fucked up the butt, and he didn't get sick.

What killed him was not Bill Weintraub, FROT, Heroic Homosex, or the Man2Man Alliance.

What killed him was analism and butt-fucking.

That's the truth, and it's the reality behind this argument with the buttboys.

We don't hurt anyone and we don't kill anyone.

They do.

That's why Larry Kramer, who is arguably the premier gay and AIDS activist of his generation, has said that gay men have been MURDERING each other for 30 years.

Because anal penetration kills.

My friend died very slowly and very gruesomely.

The effect upon his body was violent.

Just as if he'd been bashed.

Murdered.

Other effeminate men go so far as to have "gender-altering" procedures performed on their bodies, including chemical and physical castration.

That's a violent, self-oppressive behavior.

Of course there are people in this world who physically assault effeminate men.

Those attackers are almost always men who have secret sexual lives with -- effeminate men.

We condemn those physical assaults and the men who make them.

There are also men in this world -- mainly gay men -- who say they support effeminacy but will not have sex with an effeminate man.

Seems hypocritical, doesn't it?

How can you "support effeminacy" but say that the behavior is so repugnant to you physically and emotionally that you won't connect sexually with an effeminate man?

The buttboys, in this regard, as in so many others, are hypocrites.

We're not.

We're upfront about what we believe and what we do.

WE DO NOT SUPPORT EFFEMINACY.

WE REJECT EFFEMINACY.

We encourage effeminate and otherwise feminized males to reclaim their MASCULINITY and live as MEN.

I have to wonder why any of the men on this site would have any sympathy for the effeminate.

As Robert has made plain, and as you should certainly know from your own life-experience, the effeminate and their various feminizing allies do not sympathize with you.

They attack masculinity -- and Frot -- over and over and over again.

The difference between you and those folks is that they're well-organized and well-funded.

You're NOT.

That's why you're always getting beat up.

Truth is, when it comes to bashing, the buttboys are experts.

And you're the ones who are feeling the pain.

Rob, remember, said he felt emasculated.

I wonder why.

Still don't want to donate?

Fine.

It is, as they say, your life.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.