Greg Milliken

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

1-30-2006

Den,

Great post. Especially when you point out that these discussions need to turn into action. It is frustrating trying to find other guys out there who are into frot and not anal.

But when you say that anyone who doesn't support the site is a buttfucker, I have to disagree. Only someone who fucks another person in the ass is a buttfucker. Let me explain why.

During discussions about frot, I've experienced being called a homophobe, despite the fact that I have no problem with men having sex with other men.

During discussions about culture, I've been called a racist, even though I don't believe in any inherent superiority of one race over another.

During discussions about effeminacy, I've been called a misogynist, even though I support anything that empowers women, but doesn't do so at the expense of men.

It's all too common for people these days to assasinate any real meaning these words might have to put forth their own selfish political agenda.

I'm not a racist, homophobe, or misogynist.

Yet I've been called these hateful things because someone disagreed with my views.

And I see more and more that these words no longer mean what they are supposed to, but instead refer to someone who disagrees with you.

As a result, true racism is beginning to become a joke rather than something to take seriously.

To misuse these words so selfishly is wrong.

Likewise, someone who practices frot only, but doesn't contribute to the website or the frot movement isn't a buttfucker.

He might be stupid and incredibly shortsighted.

But he isn't a buttfucker.

In fact, he's a far cry better than any buttfucker because he doesn't practice anal, and contribute to the subsequent spread of disease.

At least not directly.

I've mentioned in a previous post that these men are like the Grinch.

They want to take the material aspect of frot--rubbing cocks--and try to make it work in analist culture.

And of course what they will end up with is more analism.

Because just like the Grinch tried to steal Christmas, he couldn't, because Christmas lies in the hearts and minds of the people, not the decorations and presents.

So these guys might rub cocks with a bunch of guys, but they will eventually be pressured into doing anal.

They might have lots of orgasms, but they won't find a bud to bond with.

And they might have a good time, but that will be followed by endless frustration trying to find a partner who isn't trying to stick a finger up their butts.

All because they WON'T donate.

Instead they go watch Brokeback Mountain and complain about how we talk about masculinity.

That's their choice.

It's a shitty one, but it's theirs.

No one in the frot movement tries to force someone into doing something they don't want to.

That's what analism is for.

I hope someday, soon, these men will wake up and realize that.

And fight back.

Greg Milliken

Bill Weintraub

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-5-2006

Thank you both Den and Greg

I told Greg that I understand his point -- we don't want to misuse the language, which is what the analists do.

But I also appreciate and understand Den's point.

Before I go into that however, the question remains of why support is so low.

A lot of it, in my view, is that in America, we regard sex as dirty, and sex between men as particularly dirty; and it's very difficult therefore to get Americans to think of sex seriously and in particular in the way we do, to think of sex between men in noble terms.

Instead most of the guys who use the site think salaciously, and I can see that in the posts they attempt to put up in Frot Club, which talk about cum and dick size and so forth.

So that's a very great problem.

Which site users will either overcome, or to which they'll succumb.

Now, I want to return to Den's point, because I think it's valid -- and if I can't get you guys to respond to it, I'll close the sites because it's far too much of a battle getting you to do the right thing.

And please note that Greg too said you guys need to fight back.

Here's what Den said:

IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND YOU HAVE NEVER CONTRIBUTED OR ARE NOT CONTRIBUTING REGULARLY YOU ARE A BAREBACK BUTTFUCKER!

You don't actually have to fuck butt to be a buttfucker. You just have to take something without giving something back, an unequal relationship. If you do not donate you are getting something at the expense of the guys who have believed society's bullshit and hate themselves because of their same sex feelings. You are looking at these sites at the expense of all the young men who will buy the BFD bullshit and die of drug resistant HIV. More of these men could be reached if the Alliance were financially secure instead of crumbling.

"You don't actually have to fuck butt to be a buttfucker. You just have to take something without giving something back, an unequal relationship."

I think that's fair.

In our language, we have a number of expressions which indicate an unjust and unequal situation by referencing anal.

For example,

"That's fucked up."

What that really means is "That situation is analogous to being fucked up the butt."

And

"You were fucked over."

What that really means is "You were used badly in the manner of someone who gets fucked up the butt."

So the language understands that to be buttfucked is to be used.

Let me speak to this very personally.

I work very hard on these sites and in other ways to spread the word about Frot.

As Patrick has written, I work 16 hours per day, I work holidays, I work weekends.

I work nonstop.

Do I feel fucked over by the men who don't donate?

Yes.

They're using me.

As Den said, "Bill started these sites to save the lives of other men like Brett, not so more guys could make their computer keyboards sticky."

Den is correct.

Guys who use the sites exclusively for sex, are using my personal tragedy to get off.

That's repulsive.

Even more repulsive, they do it because they can.

In order for us to reach the men we're sworn to reach, we have to remain free.

The men who don't donate are taking advantage of that.

It's selfish, piggy behavior.

Oink, oink.

If I were single, I wouldn't touch one of those men with a stick.

If I were single, the first question I'd ask of a potential buddy from Frot Club is -- Do you support the Alliance? Have you donated?

I'd make that my litmus test.

I wonder how many of you would do that?

In the period between coming out and meeting Brett, which was fully ten years, I NEVER slept with a man who was closeted and / or not active in the movement.

Because those closeted men were worthless.

There was no way I was going to live with a closeted homosexual.

That's how I met Brett -- by making that my standard.

Since we're talking about rubbing here -- when you have sex with someone -- it rubs off.

You sleep with a man who's not worthy -- and some of his unworthiness rubs off on you.

Does that never occur to you?

And you can never get rid of the stain.

Does that sound harsh?

Life is harsh.

The choices you make have consequences.

And no matter how you look at it, the "men" who don't donate are not only fucking me over, they're fucking over all the other men who do donate.

They're taking advantage of them too.

Is that a buttfuck mentality?

Yes.

The top gets off, the bottom gets used.

That's the essence of buttfucking.

That's why it's not the same as penile-vaginal or penile-penile.

Because for the bottom it's not sex.

That's why Mart Finn refers to anal as transactional sex: sex with a commercial aspect.

I believe very strongly that sex and commerce don't mix.

That when you start charging for sex and marketing sex, you get into trouble.

In the last two decades, there's developed in our country and throughout the world a cult of "free market capitalism" -- free markets.

Well, free markets may be great for many things.

But for some things they're deadly.

We can see that in privatized health care in our country -- which is very expensive, which has made us less competitive, and which discriminates against the poor and the sick.

We can also see that in the attempted privatization of the schools.

And of the military.

The Greek city-states were defended by citizen-soldiers.

And so long as they were, they remained free.

The Roman Republic was also defended and conquered a lot of the world -- Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Carthage, Iberia, Greece -- using citizen-soldiers.

And under those citizen-soldiers, Rome too remained free.

But over time, the Roman army was privatized.

And those privately paid soldiers destroyed the Roman Republic.

And, eventually, fatally weakened the empire.

In a famous passage, Gibbon, author of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, talks of the difference between soldiers motivated by principle and those by loot:

The civil wars of modern Europe [Gibbon was writing in 1776] have been distinquished, not only by the fierce animosity, but likewise by the obstinate perseverance, of the contending factions. They have generally been justified by some principle, or, at least, coloured by some pretext, of religion, freedom, or loyalty. The leaders were nobles of independent property and hereditary influence. The troops fought like men interested in a decision of the quarrel; and as military spirit and party zeal were strongly distilled throughout the whole community, a vanquished chief was immediately supplied with new adherents, eager to shed their blood in the same cause.

But the Romans, after the fall of the republic, combated only for the choice of masters. Under the standard of a popular candidate for empire, a few enlisted from affection, some from fear, many from interest, none from principle. The legions, uninflamed by party zeal, were allured into civil war by liberal donatives [gifts of money], and still more liberal promises. A defeat, by disabling the chief from the performance of his engagements, dissolved the mercenary allegiance of his followers; and left them to consult their own safety, by a timely desertion of an unsuccessful cause.

"a few enlisted from affection, some from fear, many from interest, none from principle."

"many from interest -- none from principle."

It's a damning statement.

That's the problem of a privatized military.

And it's also the problem of commercialized sex.

In addition, in my experience *many* of the men on this site are buttfuckers in the literal sense of the word.

They may like Frot, but they're still doing anal.

Those are the guys who cause the biggest administrative headaches.

They're the ones who misuse Frot Club, who solicit promiscuity and lie about their reason for being there.

So that buttfuck mentality is a huge problem.

And it's a problem not just in buttfuck land, but on this site as well.

A dominant culture, as I often say, influences all aspects of the lives of its members.

That's why gay male life is so -- fucked up.

The point to this site and to our Regional Chapters is to create an alternative.

If you're not involved in the creation of that alternative -- you're de facto supporting the BFD.

And that won't work.

Greg says that we don't force anyone to do something they don't want to.

That's true.

But does that mean that participation in this movement is optional?

NO.

Not in a moral sense.

And not, in my experience, in a practical sense either.

I went through this in the 1970s.

Men refused to come out and refused to come out and refused to come out and refused to come out.

Then they were hit by AIDS.

Those very same men who refused to come out -- WERE OUTED BY AIDS AND DIED.

Literally in the hundreds of thousands.

Will there be another anally-vectored epidemic?

Yes.

Will the so-called men into Frot who use this site and who are still dabbling in anal fall prey to that epidemic?

YES.

If it's anally-vectored, and you're doing anal, you'll get it.

That's the way it works.

I believe that next epidemic is starting now and is gathering force.

And I have the figures to support that assertion.

This is from a NY Times article we reported on in 2002:

A 1998 study, appearing in The Journal of Infectious Diseases with Dr. Palefsky as a co-author, showed that 61 percent of 262 H.I.V.-negative gay and bisexual men in San Francisco and 93 percent of 346 H.I.V.-positive gay and bisexual men were infected with anal HPV.

Chin-Hong's studies in 2004, 2005 confirmed those figures.

What's the risk factor?

In multivariate analysis the investigators found that the only factor with a statistically significant association with HPV infection was receptive sexual [sic] intercourse in the previous six months (p < 0. 0001).

That means that if you've had receptive anal any time in the last decade -- minimally -- you're almost certainly infected with anal HPV.

Not surprising.

Because both absolutely and OVER TIME:

The more buttfucking, the more disease.

That's the reality.

There is no truly safe way to do anal.

Pathogens -- which are basically just little critters -- take advantage of a food source.

That's why we have garbage cans.

To prevent our towns and cities from being overrun by rats.

Having a bunch of men doing anal in your community is like having a bunch of folks in your town who go around at night removing the lids from the garbage cans and knocking them over.

They're inviting disaster.

At the beginning of this thread Den asked a question:

Why does Bill have to beg to keep the Alliance sites alive?

I think Den's answer is accurate:

Because there are a lot of buttfuckers out there.

In a subsequent letter, Den said of the men who refuse to do anything:

If you are not fighting against the BFD, you are silently condoning its actions and you have have HIV-tainted blood and shit on your hands. Although you never pull down your pants you are implicated in the monstrous crime of thousands of innocent young perverting their sexuality and becoming whores (literally as well as metaphorically).

jedi

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-5-2006

Let me add some words to this topic...

GUYS!!

All of you that want to be part of this

HYPER NEW UNIQUE MOVEMENT

that has nothing similar in any corner of our world and that if ever getting into real power...

can change our world

from all basics on.. for a better future for all of us.

ALL GUYS!!

that want a world of more equality for all of us..

ALL GUYS!!

that want to heal their wounds a homophobic world has brought upon us..

ALL GUYS!!

that believe in love

ALL GUYS!!

that love to be loved with respect and for real without any deals..

ALL GUYS!!

that want the jump from a dead unreal artificial world into something real and alive(no drugs needed)

ALL GUYS!!

that want to see the impossible..become possible

ALL YOU CAN BE PART OF IT HAPPEN!!

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU ARE POWERLESS

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU LOVE DOESNT EXIST

======================================

WE ARE BORN TO BE ALIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

======================================

GUYS!!

what do you want!!!

a world powerd by drugs/money/promiscous sex

and a pervert hate against love and anything real????

if yes exit this side...and dont return

======================================

but if you think

fucking hell

there must be more to life then all this shit i experience day by day..

IF YOU WANT LIFE

IF YOU WANT ROCKN ROLL

IF YOU WANT THE REAL YOU BREAK FREE

======================================

then support this movement

each in the way he can...

its the right time!

its the right people!

its the right thing!

this is a movement of love here

this is a movement of life here

this is a movement of light here

this is a movement for each of us

a better world

a better future

a real world

a real us

a real you

YOU HAVE THE POWER

FREE THE WORLD

FREE YOURESELF!

jedi

Greg Milliken

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-6-2006

But does that mean that participation in this movement is optional?

NO.

Not in a moral sense.

Yes Bill.

I totally agree.

When I posted in my reply that "It's a shitty choice, but it's theirs." that is exactly what I meant.

No moral or ethical person can go on supporting and accommodating analism at every turn, and not give a dime to the frot movement.

It's like you said in the Boycott Brokeback Mountain post.

If you go see the movie, send at least as much money to the alliance.

If people don't do that then Ang Lee and the butt boys will keep getting millions of dollars.

While the frot movement will slowly fade.

Maybe we won't disappear altogether, but things will certainly get harder than they are right now.

For example, those guys posting on the personals message boards will no longer have that outlet to connect with each other.

All those people who might have come to the site and realized this movement is for them, won't find it.

Which in turn will reduce the dating pool of men into frot.

Just like the HIV epidemic.

Maybe we should rename it the Analism epidemic.

Because, in reality, it's far more than just HIV that is at epidemic levels in this country.

It's just about every disease that can be transmitted anally.

This isn't about fighting AIDS, though.

It's about value.

How much do you value the ideals and virtues of the frot movement?

And is the value of a couple bucks equal to watching those values sink into the ever encroaching tide of the Analist epidemic and philosophy?

Of course it isn't.

It never was.

Why do you get money?

Because you earned it.

It's a physical and exchangeable representation of your work and effort: which wouldn't exist without some sense of how you value it.

And the honest-to-God truth is that if you value your work and effort enough to put it into action to earn money, then you don't want to waste it on a culture which absorbs and kills every facet of work and effort. A culture which tells you that short-term pleasure is more important than long-term happiness. A culture which searches for the easiest way to get what it wants, rather than putting forth the necessary effort to get what's valuable.

I can't resolve it.

You will put your effort into a sinking swamp.

But you won't donate it to a movement which recognizes the value of it, and will amplify its worth.

You guys might as well quit your jobs, move to Europe and live on welfare.

Let me relate a story to you all:

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on everyday deep inside the gut of people, is a battle that ultimately decides your destiny: the way you feel; the way you act; the way you think; the way in which you live your life. He said, 'My son, the battle is between two wolves. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, honesty, and faith.' The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins the battle?" The old Cherokee simply replied, 'The one you feed.

Which one are you feeding, guys?

The consumerists' gaping mouth that begs for more and more and gives you less and less?

Or the values and ideals that make life worth living?

Greg Milliken

Den

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-7-2006

THERE ARE WARRIORS BUT ARE THERE ENOUGH TO FIGHT?

RE: Greg's last post

Greg,

I did not see your last response before I wrote this post.

I see that you agree on the moral imperative those who do not donate supporting the site.

I really agree with the parable of the wolves. Not feeding the good-donatation and action- is feeding the BFD wolf. Greg writes "How much do you value the ideals and virtues of the frot movement?' I add

DO YOU HAVE IDEALS AND VIRTUE?

DONATE

===================

Greg, Jedi and Bill,

Greg, I bow to you in respect, you are a warrior; that was a good reply and I feel I should respond to it. You mention discussions about frot, culture and effemenancy that result in you being labeled racist, homophobe and misogynist. Good, you know you're not, and that you are means that you are actively fighting.

You are a warrior.

About my calling frot bros. who do not do anything else but practice frot "buttfuckers", they may as well be buttfuckers and I stand by that label. If you do not donate or fight as you do you are perpetuating the status quo which is exactly the aim of the BFD.

I understand that your comparison to the Grinch, but I do not feel that is strong enough. There are thousands of lives at stake, not the joy of Christmas. You write that "(to not donate) is their choice. A shitty one, but theirs. No one in the frot movement tries to force someone to do what they do not want to" Fine, but I keep thinking of young men, maybe because my M2M feelings were buried when I was 19, decades ago. Young men who do not have a choice because of the BFD propaganda and think that they must buttfuck if they are attracted to men. Also the young men like I myself, who are attracted to both men and women, and will lock away part of themselves because the only choice seems to be be straight or be gay.

Guys who are frot brothers, who do not do anything else but have frot sex, may not be buttfuckers literally, but they are not warriors and that is what is desperately needed.

Greg, you also wrote "I also hope someday, soon, these men (the "buttfucker" frot bros) will wake up..."

Similarly Jedi, another warrior I bow to, wrote "WAKE UP FROM YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU ARE POWERLESS, WAKE UP FROM YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU THAT NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE. WAKE UP FROM YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU THAT LOVE DOESNT EXIST.

We are all on the same page.

His post is the positive side of mine, but the intent is the same "WAKE UP!" I however am angry and searching for a way to direct that power. I think some brothers need to be waken up by a swift kick.

It is good that members of the alliance debate, and fight over what should be done. Warriors who are bonded together fight each other and inflict real pain as a way to strengthen each other.

Warriors take risks, even ones that seem crazy. A story I remember about Sitting Bull relates that he and another warrior sat down in the middle of firefight and calmly performed a pipe offering and were not harmed even though they should have been sitting ducks.

I think that the true Warriors, should be talking about action and strategy not just how great C2C is. I would like to see posts telling what brave and crazy actions we have done. The native Americans warriors had a tradition called counting coup, which involved demonstrating your bravery not just killing your opponent. It was better to humilate an opponent and steal his honor, at great risk to yourself.

I challenge the warriors to post what they have done.

I intend to tattoo http://man2manalliance.org on the backside of either a buttfucker or Pat Robertson. Well, actually not, but I do intend to both contribute and put some signs reading that on the local GLBT center teen bulletin board. This is not so brave, but it is my first step. What are you other warriors doing?

TAKE ACTION

SUPPORT THE ALLIANCE

DONATE!

Den

Greg Milliken

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-8-2006

Den,

I appreciate your concern, and I understand your point.

However, we don't need to call these people buttfuckers.

There's already a word for people who don't help their fellows and instead aid the enemy.

They are called traitors.

That's what you call people who would stab you in the back.

Or in this case, the backside.

And that's what I would prefer to call them, because it's what they are.

Whatever connotations the word "buttfucker" has to me and you and many of the other men in the alliance, it lends a false sense to these men that they might get more acceptance from the BFD. Not only is that not the case (since the BFD will use them up and spit them out,) but if they truly enjoy frot and not anal then they belong as part of the frot movement, not part of the BFD.

But as long as they continue supporting the BFD and doing nothing for the alliance, they are traitors.

They betray their own bodies, their own values, their own dreams.

They betray those of us who do donate and contribute.

They betray the effort and work Bill puts forth for the frot movement.

And they betray humanity by continuing to spread plague after plague for the diseased buttfuck culture.

You'd think people would have figured it out by now.

If you donate, even a couple bucks a month, things will get better.

More people will be able to find the website.

The frot movement will actually begin to have a real voice.

Think about it.

In the 2000 election, President Bush barely won.

Imagine if 500,000 gay men had never done anal, caught HIV, and were still alive to vote in 2000.

I'm not saying whether or not things would be better or worse.

But you have to agree that 500,000 votes, a fairly significant portion of which would have been in Florida (have you ever seen Ft. Lauderdale?) would have resulted in a much different world, considering most gay men tend to vote democrat.

And arguably some of them did anyway, due to voter fraud.

But every year that goes by with the BFD still entrenched equals another couple thousand men silenced. By death. There's no way to get those voices back. Those opinions. Those contributions to the world. Those lives.

Once they are gone, that's it.

By not donating to the frot movement and opposing the BFD, you are responsible for the world we live in.

And, no doubt, as gay men continue dying, we will continue to lose power both politically and culturally.

That much is readily evident.

It's amazing that the debate has sunk down to this level.

Gay men should be out there marching and protesting for the right to have a legally recognized union.

Gay men should be out there arguing over whether gays should be allowed in the military.

Gay men should be out there forging lives and friendships and relationships with each other.

Instead they spend all their time in chatrooms and sex clubs.

They are marching to AIDS clinics.

They are debating whether or not we should stop killing ourselves through a flawed form of sex.

How can that even be an issue worth debating?

How can we even seriously consider that whatever pleasure derived from anal penetration is worth the cost in lives that it has already taken and will continue to take in the future?

And how can so many men support the losing side of that argument?

Let me say it again, only this time let me phrase it in a way that makes my meaning clear:

Fidelity or betrayal guys, it's your choice.

But if you choose betrayal, you either will live to regret it, or you won't live.

That's what makes the choice easy.

There's only one choice that makes the outcome worthwhile.

Choose it.

Please.

For everyone and everything you know and love.

Before it all goes down the crap tube.

Greg Milliken

Bill Weintraub

Re: ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS?

2-9-2006

Hi guys

I appreciate what all of you are trying to do -- which is to motivate our guys to participate.

Obviously we don't want to get bogged down in name-calling.

But I do see common ground in what we're saying.

On a couple of occasions on this board, cognizant of the way Larry Kramer used the word in his 1979 novel FAGGOTS, I've used the word "faggot" to characterize gay men whose only concern is their selfish sybaritic pleasure, and who in pursuit of that pleasure betray not only their community but their physical, emotional, and spiritual selves.

Den has used the word "buttfucker," in the sense of someone who uses others to obtain sexual pleasure, with no regard for the consequences to others -- or to himself.

And Greg has today used traitor, in this sense:

They betray their own bodies, their own values, their own dreams.

They betray those of us who do donate and contribute.

They betray the effort and work Bill puts forth for the frot movement.

And they betray humanity by continuing to spread plague after plague for the diseased buttfuck culture.

What Greg has said is important, first because it's manifestly true, and also because in all three of our formulations, the idea of betrayal is foremost.

And in all three cases, the betrayal is not only of community but of self.

That betrayal of self is what's so striking -- and indeed shocking.

But again, equally shocking is valuing a "sex" act above life.

As Greg says, and it's a very important point, that's a betrayal of humanity.

But beyond what word we attach to these actions, the real question here, I hope we can agree, is how do we get these guys to stop betraying themselves and their fellows?

I can tell you, from my experience of the gay movement in the 1970s, that it's very difficult and takes a long time to get people moving on this sort of issue.

I've termed this "cultural inertia," I talk about it on the Regional Chapters page, and it's the reality any activist faces.

Once the culture is in stasis, once it's in a groove, it will seek to stay there.

Thus intellectual historian Tom Kuhn's notion of a dominant paradigm -- a cultural model which does not want to let go.

Let's look at how this played out in the 70s.

For example, I said that "Participation is not optional."

When activists like myself said that to gay men in the 70s, they'd respond, "Sure it is. -- I don't have to participate if I don't want to."

If I then said, "Participation would better your life," they'd respond: "I don't see it that way. I think I'm better off closeted, making a lot of money, and going to the bars and baths on my days off, then being out and working in a low-paying job, dealing with the fall-out from my family and friends, etc."

Those men were wrong -- as it turned out, dead wrong -- but convincing them was not easy.

And I assure you that if we queried the non-participants in this movement, we'd get similar responses:

If I donate, I have less money in my pocket to spend on other things -- like internet porn.

If I tell my friends I don't do anal, or put that on my online profile, I'll lose friends -- and partners.

I need my friends.

And sex with another man is so important to my self-validation that I'd rather have that and have it often, even if it includes anal, than a pure Frot experience once in a great while.

So -- there are no easy answers to getting these guys motivated.

In my experience over the last 30 years, you try a variety of things -- including some name-calling, provided it's apt -- and some of those things work, some don't.

I think what Greg said is important as one place to start:

"They betray their own bodies, their own values, their own dreams."

I think that's something we need to say to men over and over and over again:

"You're betraying your body, you're betraying your values, you're betraying your dreams."

And we need to look at and think really hard about what Jedi said:

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU ARE POWERLESS

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE

WAKE UP OF YOUR TRANCES THAT TELL YOU LOVE DOESNT EXIST

======================================

WE ARE BORN TO BE ALIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

======================================

IF YOU WANT LIFE

IF YOU WANT ROCKN ROLL

IF YOU WANT THE REAL YOU BREAK FREE

======================================

then support this movement

each in the way he can...

its the right time!

its the right people!

its the right thing!

this is a movement of love here

this is a movement of life here

this is a movement of light here

this is a movement for each of us

a better world

a better future

a real world

a real us

a real you

YOU HAVE THE POWER

FREE THE WORLD

FREE YOURSELF!

All the points he's made are valid:

People think they're powerless, they think things will never change, they think that love doesn't exist.

But people working together change the world each and every day;

And change itself is in the nature of things -- the world changes -- it doesn't stay the same, we all know that.

And LOVE does exist -- it's a huge reality in everyday human lives.

"WE ARE BORN TO BE ALIVE" -- that's right.

"IF YOU WANT THE REAL YOU -- BREAK FREE" -- yes!

"This is a movement of love, of life, of light, and for each of us."

That's the truth.

YOU HAVE THE POWER

FREE THE WORLD

FREE YOURSELF!

That's our message.

Guys, again, try to remember that change is in the order of things.

Gay men in the 70s thought the 70s would go on forever.

They didn't.

The 70s ended very abruptly on June 5, 1981, with the first report of "GRID" -- Gay Related Immune Deficiency.

And a new world was born -- the world of HIV / AIDS.

Gay men in the 90s -- and we're still living in the late 90s in many ways -- think that the 90s will go one forever.

They will not.

Things will change.

Our job is to make sure they change for the better.

To that end, I've put forward five things guys can do:

1. Put the words Frot and Man2ManAlliance.org on every online profile you have, and anywhere else appropriate on the web -- blogs and message boards are good places.

And use those Frot symbols Boomer created: Frot Symbols!

This is a very easy thing to do, and yet it's critical.

One reason analism has become so entrenched is the internet.

Nowadays, gay-identified kids hit the net around the same time they hit puberty, and they see a zillion websites and images of anal.

There must be a counterbalance.

We have a number of posts in Warriors Speak and on this board from 18-year-olds saying, before I saw this site, I thought I had to do anal.

(See for example, Pure Love and Passion in Warriors Speak III.)

So getting the word out on the net really matters, and anyone can do that.

2. Come out to your family and friends as a man into Frot -- a Frot man.

3. Get involved in organizing your Regional Chapter.

4. Make plans to do a booth at Gay Pride this year.

5. Donate.

Everyone reading this board can do at least one of those.

Doing nothing is, as Greg said, a betrayal.

First and foremost, of yourself.

And then of others.

My lover Brett was killed by a stab in the back.

The analists don't understand that.

They say, HIV killed him.

And I say, sure.

Just like the bullet fired from the gun killed the crime victim.

But someone wielded the gun.

And it was some analist's dick which fired the HIV into Brett's body.

Had Brett seen these issues as clearly as we do now, he wouldn't have let himself be vulnerable in that way.

We need to be very clear and very forceful in educating our fellows about just what's at stake.

Now:

Because this message thread has been about all the things which aren't happening and aren't getting done, I want to remind people of all we have accomplished in the last six years:

Six years ago, there was no Cockrub Warriors, no Heroic Homosex, no Frot Club, no Man2Man Alliance.

There were just a couple pix n post "frottage" clubs on yahoo.

There were no Personal Stories.

Most men into frot -- the word itself didn't exist because I hadn't yet coined it -- thought they were the only guys on earth who liked rubbin cocks.

We changed that.

We took "frottage," which was universally denigrated, and turned it into FROT, the hot, masculine, phallus-on-phallus, skin-on-skin, bone-on-bone, cock2cock and dick2dick alternative for men who have sex with men.

And I started our MSN group and invited men into frot -- FROT GUYS -- to start speaking about their lives on our Personal Stories message board.

At first we had no posts.

Then we had five.

Then we had ten.

Then it was fifteen.

And each week I would beg and plead and cajole and harangue guys -- into telling their stories.

It worked.

We now have more than 3300 posts.

We have so many that I can't keep up with them, and I doubt anyone besides myself has read all of them.

And what has changed is that FROT GUYS who are lucky enough to find this site know that THEY ARE NOT ALONE.

When a FROT GUY comes to this site -- whether he considers himself gay, bi, or straight -- he finds other guys whose personal story matches his own.

And he realizes that he's not alone, he's not weird, he's not sick -- he's just a normal guy who's into other guys.

Not their buttholes.

But their cocks, their dicks, their masculinity, their manhood.

And that he doesn't have to fuck or get fucked, he doesn't have to turn himself into a piece of meat, to be a man who loves other men.

Right now tens of thousands of visitors per month are learning that basic truth.

Think how it would be if we increased that figure by a factor of five.

Or ten?

Think it can't be done?

Think again.

When we started the site we had -- NO -- personal stories.

We increased that by a factor of 3300.

When we started the site, we had 500 visitors per month.

We've increased that by a factor of -- not 10, not 20, not 50, not 100 But by 180 -- almost 200.

Suppose we increased that in the next month by a factor of 2?

Suppose we went from 3000 visitors per day to 6000?

The number of posts in Frot Club would double.

And your lives would suddenly get a lot easier.

Think about it.

Think about where you'd like to be a year from now.

The one thing you can be sure of, as I keep saying, is that if you do nothing, nothing will change.

If you're not willing to spend $5 per month on the chance that you can improve your life --

It won't improve.

The people who've got the most out of this site are the guys who've participated.

They're the guys who've found partners -- including me.

You can find a partner too.

But to do that you're going to have to do more than sit on your hands.

If you truly want what most of you say you want -- a faithful, devoted, and loving friend -- you'll have to do something.

DONATE

Fight back.

Save your life.