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Society's Procrustean Bed
Society's Procrustean Bed
3-31-2006
I had just a couple of thoughts I wanted to share about one of the post threads this last month, Tiny and Stable. When I read your post (and later, the original article), I was reminded of a brief conversation I heard between Mr. Savage and the host of that NPR current-events show "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me". Savage was calling in as a contestant (a regular show segment), and the host, as per the formula, asked Savage what was new. Savage starts in about the adoption and the resulting increase in the domesticity of his life. Then he made the comment that he and his partner were essentially living a "straight" life (meaning, I assume, married couple with a kid). Then he says that his brother and his girlfriend were the gay ones in the family. Why? Because they met at a museum or art gallery, travel when they feel like it, go to concerts, plays, art shows, etc. Then he caps it with the comment, delivered like a punch line, "How gay is that?" Everyone in the studio apparently broke up.
The comment bothered me then, and it still does. It doesn't reach the enormity of his comments in the Times, but it is just another example of cramming people into a Procrustean bed of preconceived, prefabricated classifications that - and this is the part that gets me and has since my college days - is used by people - and usually well-educated and supposedly intelligent people - as a substitute for real analysis and thought. It's the sort of thing the NPR and Times crowd seems to eat up (which doesn't say much for me since I listen to one and read the other, LOL). Part of it is this "lifestyle" thing that in truth doesn't really have anything to do with who you are attracted to, but it's also another aspect of the issue you were writing about. It's an easy shortcut that let's people avoid the true ambiguity of so much in life - including sexuality. It's easier to hide behind the duality and pick your side -or let it be picked for you. I think that's why the churches are so popular. It's pretty lonely standing on your own, with your own internalized sense of right and wrong and of who you are - which to me is the essence of being a man. And that's something I think most of the guys on this site - the ones that post anyway - feel the same way about.
Back in 1980, The Atlantic Monthly reprinted an article it had published in the late 1940's by a man named Archibald MacLeish
entitled "The Conquest of America". The essay was primarily about how we were becoming obsessed with being against the Soviets to the point of forgetting what we were for - and who we were. In the essay, he wrote about his sense of the evolution of human culture towards greater individual autonomy, to the point of what I said above, of a man standing on his own before God and the world, taking action and making decisions based on his own conscience without hiding behind social expectations or the approval of some church body or other hierarchy. He also admitted that that was a very scary thing to most people and that their instinct would be to run and hide from it (very prophetic in many ways). He also thought it was inevitable regardless of how many generations - or centuries - it took. I feel this site is part of that struggle.
Jim
Re: Society's Procrustean Bed
3-31-2006
Thank you Jim.
Jim is the author of to deepen, not weaken, masculinity.
Jim sent in this post in response to the Tiny and Stable message thread, where it has been posted, but I also want it to stand on its own, because the points he's making are very important.
And because as it happens, we've had two posts in this last week which illustrate the damage done by, as Jim puts it, "cramming people into a Procrustean bed of preconceived, prefabricated classifications."
And I would add, expectations.
First of all, what's a Procrustean bed?
Procrustes was a villain in Greek mythology who had a bed which he forced his victims to lie on.
If you were too tall for the bed, he lopped off your limbs.
If you were too short for the bed, he stretched and hammered you until you fit.
So those who were forced to lie on the Procrustean bed -- died.
We can see society's Procrustean bed in action when we look at these two recent posts, New to this and looking for insight, which represent two points on the societal continuum of "sexual orientation."
In looking for insight, JK, a gay-identified guy in Florida, describes how he was forced to play the role of "weak fag" and "hole" for his domineering BF.
And how their effeminate gay friends assisted in the process.
In New to this, Chad, a young straight-identified man, describes how he freaked after having really hot cock2cock sex with a buddy, sex he describes as the best of his life.
In each case, there's "a Procrustean bed of preconceived, prefabricated classifications" and expectations at work.
Because he's "gay," JK is expected to be anally receptive and otherwise act like a pseudo-woman.
And because he's "straight," Chad is expected to never have sex with another guy, and certainly not enjoy it if it happens.
To their credit, both JK and Chad are rebelling against these societal classifications and expectations.
JK is saying I don't want to be a "hole" anymore.
I want to Frot with my lover -- and let the two of us be men together.
Chad is saying -- I liked what happened.
Maybe I'd like it to happen again.
But we can be sure that their respective cultures will fight both of these men on both points.
Mainstream gay culture will continue to tell JK that if he doesn't get fucked, he's not really gay.
While straight culture will continue to tell Chad that straight guys don't have sex with other guys.
At the heart of both culture's Procrustean expectations is a lie:
That men who have sex with men aren't really men.
That's a lie.
MEN HAVE SEX WITH MEN.
Always have.
Always will.
MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN ARE MEN.
Men who have sex with men are men.
They're not women, they're not pseudo-women, they're not anything other than men.
And gay and straight are not two totally discrete categories.
Most human beings, including most MEN, are bisexual.
That's the truth.
MEN HAVE SEX WITH MEN.
MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN ARE MEN.
No matter how they self-identify.
Whether gay-identified, bi, or straight-identified, MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN ARE MEN.
IT'S NORMAL AND NATURAL FOR MEN TO HAVE SEX WITH MEN.
Where guys get into trouble is in thinking that it's not normal.
If you're gay-identified, and have a more-or-less exclusive erotic interest in other males, and if you believe that interest makes you less-than-male yourself, it's logical for you to attempt to turn yourself into a pseudo-woman by being anally receptive.
Until, as happened to JK in looking for insight, the pain of anal forces you to rethink your sexual strategy.
Similarly, if you're straight-identified, yet find yourself enjoying, more than any other sex you've ever had, Frot with a buddy, it's logical for you to wonder whether you're "gay" -- less-than-truly-male.
IN NEITHER CASE IS THE "LESS-THAN-MALE" LABEL ACCURATE.
Gay-identified men and straight-identified men are MEN.
MEN.
MEN HAVE SEX WITH MEN.
Nevertheless, these Procrustean classifications of gay and straight have great power in our society.
Why?
As Jim says, they're
a substitute for real analysis and thought. ... an easy shortcut that lets people avoid the true ambiguity of so much in life - including sexuality. It's easier to hide behind the duality and pick your side - or let it be picked for you. I think that's why the churches are so popular. It's pretty lonely standing on your own, with your own internalized sense of right and wrong and of who you are - which to me is the essence of being a man.
Right.
Having the courage to "stand on your own, with your own internalized sense of right and wrong and of who you are" is the "essence of being a man."
There's an irony here.
Our society claims to extol "independence" and "manliness."
But guys who stand on their own on these issues, whether they're gay-identified Frot men; or straight-identified guys who admit to enjoying cock2cock with a bud -- are excoriated by their respective cultures.
The gay-identified guys are accused of betrayal and homophobia, while the straight-identified guys are accused of not being truly straight.
In both cases, guys who are independent and manly are attacked for being independent and manly.
What incredible bullshit.
Nevertheless, says Jim, paraphrasing MacLeish, the evolution of society is leading towards
a man standing on his own before God and the world,
taking action and making decisions based on his own conscience
without hiding behind social expectations or the approval of some church body or other hierarchy.
That's a really vital statement.
Interestingly, the great mythographer Joseph Campbell makes the same point in his discussion of the importance of the medieval epic Parzival.
I often quote Campbell's description of Parzival as a "forthright, simple, uncorrupted, noble son of nature, without guile, strong in the purity of the yearning of his heart."
And he certainly has those attributes.
But Parzival is also important because he does what Jim has said:
He stands on his own before God and the world.
That's why he's so significant in the history of Western thought.
And Parzival was the creation, in the Middle Ages, not of a cleric or a scholar, but of a warrior -- Wolfram von Eschenbach.
A genuine knight in shining armor.
So: since at least ancient Greece, through the Middle Ages, and up to the present, Western culture and hopefully worldwide culture have been evolving toward greater autonomy for the individual, who is thus encouraged to "tak[e] action and mak[e] decisions based on his own conscience without hiding behind social expectations or the approval of some church body or other hierarchy."
Our movement -- the Frot Movement -- stands squarely within the tradition of fighting to give individuals more freedom.
As Jim says, "this site is part of that struggle."
Thank you Jim -- great post.
Re: Society's Procrustean Bed
4-1-2006
Our society claims to extol "independence" and "manliness."
But guys who stand on their own on these issues, whether they're gay-identified Frot men; or straight-identified guys who admit to enjoying cock2cock with a bud -- are excoriated by their respective cultures.
The gay-identified guys are accused of betrayal and homophobia, while the straight-identified guys are accused of not being truly straight.
In both cases, guys who are independent and manly are attacked for being independent and manly.
What incredible bullshit.
**************************************************************
Independence and manliness? In a society that is the historical and traditional EXCEPTION and NOT the norm? Our modern society claims to extol a lot of things but most are only wishful or fanciful thinking. It is in FACT "incredible bullshit"!!
I find it amazing that our society claims to extol manliness yet on the other side males are consistently encouraged to "show their softer side." They are encouraged to be "politically correct" and slaughter the NATURAL warrior within themselves. What society really extols is the feminized, limp handed "man" without balls enough to stand up to anyone or anything. The coward male who is weak and effeminate is what society is extolling today. And a resounding YES, guys who are independent and manly ARE attacked for being independent and manly! In fact, in some segments of our society it's an outright SIN to be an independent and manly male!
In my many travels I get to see a lot of people and, frankly, I see more and more young males who are effeminate. In fact, I see more and more of them that I can't tell if they are males or females. The unisex look is in....apparently! They are not independent and they sure as hell are not manly! Society has succeeded in murdering the natural warriors in these males and that is very apparent. BUT there's another place where this is also taking place in our society and that is in our churches. Growing numbers of males of all ages in our churches are crying out for independence and manliness because the church has succeeded in feminizing and neutering them as well. It is no longer "godly" for a Christian male to be independent and manly apparently. Women are to be the leaders in the church while men are to sit back in the church kitchen and keep silent. Again, the natural warrior in these males has been slaughtered and you can see it in all the faces of all the churchgoing males!
Jesus was not some weak willed, limp handed, pussy! Jesus was, in fact, a prime example of the masculine male. But this traditional image of him has been replaced with the more "politically correct" portrayal of him as some THING between male and female. Jesus as WARRIOR is no longer an acceptable teaching in many churches. Without going into a long theological debate I will simply say that the modern portrayal of Jesus as weak wimp is a FALSE TEACHING embraced by the modern Christian Church. The modern portrayal of Jesus is anti-Biblical, anti-Historical, and anti-Traditional.
No doubt the church has been guilty of much and no doubt many have used the church to hide behind and deny truth about themselves as men. It is still being used for such today. Manly men such as David and Jonathan are seldom spoken of because their relationship is a prime example of truly masculinity which embraces FROT! God forbid men have any kind of sex with other men!! God forbid men discover that it's NORMAL to engage in FROT! And God forbid men come to know God as HE IS and NOT as society wishes HE was! Jesus extolled true independence and manliness but this is now all swept under the carpet in the hopes that no male today will ever discover the true masculine Jesus Christ. What an absolute ABOMINATION much of the Christian Church has become! What an absolute ABOMINATION most of modern society has become!!
Neither the Church nor society extol independence or masculinity today even though they both claim to. What they REALLY extol is ENSLAVEMENT and DESTRUCTION of the modern masculine MALE! And, it is THEY who are winning the battle because what few masculine males that are left in the world today won't even stand up and fight against the assault and destruction of the nature Brotherhood of MAN. Instead they seem content will allowing the WEAK, the DEFEATED, and the FEMINIZED to rule over them! That too is an ABOMINATION!
Of course this site is part of the battle for true manliness and independence. But that battle cannot and will not be won without support from YOU who come to this site! I encourage YOU to support this site in some way however you can. I encourage you to think BEYOND yourself and think of all those frot brothers out there who do not even know about this site and it's message and work. They won't know about it unless YOU start making it known and support this site! I've read a lot of comments on this site asking how you find a frot brother and where they are at. Truth is they are ALL AROUND YOU because frot is NATURAL to males. Today's males are just too afraid to be NATURAL and they will continue to be afraid until YOU liberate them! Do YOU not see the ENSLAVEMENT in the eyes of 99.9% of the males you meet every day? Then surely you are BLIND! When we fail to liberate our brothers by supporting a site/group such as this one or when we choose to hide behind a mask such as the church then WE condemn our brethren to deeper ENSLAVEMENT. That is NOT the sign of an honorable Warrior. That is what DISHONORABLE wannabe warriors do!
The whole of mankind is in dire need of LIBERATION. The whole of mankind is in dire need of a restoration of manliness! The world awaits you who are the True Warrior who are unafraid to be truly masculine and natural MEN. If you are waiting for the BFD or the church to give you an invitation you'll literally be waiting until hell freezes over!
Men who ARE independent and manly ARE constantly attacked because we refuse to be politically correct and stuff ourselves into the societal and religious GARBAGE CANS of modern society. We can wimp-out OR we can FIGHT BACK! Those who are already defeated in their own minds wimp-out. Those who are real WARRIORS FIGHT BACK!
SO WHICH ARE YOU????????????????
Wow!
4-1-06
Thank you Robert.
A truly great post.
Robert's post bears reading and re-reading.
All the posts on this board are excellent, but Robert's post is particularly to the point of this moment.
For that reason I recommend that you print out Robert's words and read them -- once a day -- every day.
For a week -- or a month.
Every day.
Until the truth of what Robert's saying is clear to you.
Who among you most needs to do this?
Those whom Robert correctly describes as "defeated in your own minds."
Defeated in your own minds.
That's the problem.
In another message thread a guy asked Where do we go from here?
To which I responded we know where to go.
We have a concrete program which is very clearly set out.
The problem is that the vast majority of men who use this site lack the will to implement it.
To repeat: What's lacking is not a concrete program, but the will to carry it out.
As a consequence, we linger here on the net in a sort of half-life, helping the occasional man who "stumbles" upon the sites, but otherwise impotent to make the changes in both gay and straight culture we know need to be made.
What's the source of your self-defeat?
Most gay-identified men grow up learning to be silent about their orientation.
And gay-identified Frot men who speak out are brutalized by their analist "friends."
While the pressures on straight-identified guys to be unrelentingly heterosexual are immense.
Of course some people withstand peer pressure better than others, but when I look at the guys on the site, what I see is that most people become active after some life-changing event.
Mike, for example, spoke up after he contracted hepatitis C from one unwanted act of anal.
Jess suffered a tear in his anus during his first sexual experience as a teenager.
Many of us have lost friends, lovers, and/or family members to HIV.
In my own case, it wasn't until my own lover had taken his last agonized breath that I began to think about, analyze, and then publically question the analism which had surrounded me in the gay male community for years and which I'd always instinctively detested.
Again, I had to witness the prolonged suffering and death of the man I loved more than my life, before I began to question this manifestly evil system.
I once asked a friend in Alcoholics Anonymous what it takes to get someone to participate in AA.
His answer: they have to hit bottom.
I don't know how universally true that is.
What I do know is that when I make appeals for donations in moderate and reasonable terms, there's virtually no response.
Of course there are guys who donate because they understand it's the right thing to do.
But generally speaking it takes harsh, hard, and threatening language to get an increase in donations.
And even then, the number who donate is pitifully small.
So again, you guys constitute a self-impeded and self-defeating group.
And the defeat is in your own minds.
Sure, you're immersed in analist and heterosexist lies about men and sex.
But you've also got this site and all the posts on this board and in Warriors Speak.
And you know the truth of your own lives.
Even if you don't believe a word you read here, YOU KNOW THE TRUTH OF YOUR OWN LIFE.
Yet you won't give voice to it and you won't take action to defend it.
The defeat is in your own mind.
And it's destroying your life.
Robert:
I've read a lot of comments on this site asking how you find a frot brother and where they are at. Truth is they are ALL AROUND YOU because frot is NATURAL to males. Today's males are just too afraid to be NATURAL and they will continue to be afraid until YOU liberate them!
That's right.
Every one of you is surrounded every day by hundreds of potential Frot brothers.
Yet you won't reach out to them.
Instead you send me mewling puking whining letters about not being able to find a partner.
"Have you donated?" I ask.
Silence.
What do you expect me to do?
If you won't help yourself, how on earth am I to help you?
If you won't:
Put a link to this site -- www.Man2ManAlliance.org/ -- on every online profile you have and anywhere else appropriate on the web;
Come out to your family and friends as a man into Frot;
Participate in the Regional Chapters
and you're alone --
IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT.
I can't fix it, Robert Loring can't fix it, Chuck Tarver, Oscar Vallejo, Beagle Jones, Logan McClintock, Greg Milliken, David McQuarrie , Don Frazer -- we can't fix it.
ONLY YOU CAN FIX IT.
Only you.
Print out Robert's post.
Read it daily.
Think about it.
SAVE YOUR LIFE
AND
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