The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g

Levi's 501's

Levi's 501's

The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g


Dear Bill and fellow frottagers,

This letter is lengthy and I hope that you'll take the time to read it in its entirety. Its content might more be directed to those who may question the validity of frottage as a means of sexual expression or love making and may quell the doubts of those who prefer full-bodily-contact in an otherwise "front-on-your-back" or "legs-in-the-air" mainstream gay community.

Allow me to begin by stating what I describe as the "CCC's" regarding our preferred method of love making. They are for the most part characteristically the same but I'll attempt to put them into three categories.

Before I begin it needs to be made perfectly clear that there is a marked difference between love making and purely having sex, whether it's anal, oral, or frottage. The method of our sexual expression is not at point here -- just yet. However, we could certainly agree that just having sex often times is very physically satisfying but can indeed leave one wanting something that is deeper and even more satisfying. We, as human beings, are intrinsically designed for companionship, to love and be loved, and therefore seek to have that need fulfilled by so many different methods. We surround ourselves with a multitude of friends, close and casual, and as a result often times find ourselves in many compromising situations. Many of them spiritual, physical, sexual, and financial. We will often let down our guard and won't remain true to ourselves in what we feel or believe for the sake of being loved and accepted which, in turn, can be very damaging. One example might be of a young man who has come to discover that he has desires for intimacy with another young man but has been led to believe that penetration is the deepest form of intimacy between two men yet he himself finds the act unacceptable for whatever reason. But he proceeds anyway, against his own judgement and conscience for the purpose of being loved and accepted. He then is conditioned to believe that this is the mode of operation and, again, in turn, portrays this to other young men, who, like him before, have the same issues regarding our sexuality and how we demonstrate it with those we've chosen to be intimate with. Soon they are overcome with discontentment and the need to experience more, in and out of relationships (some can't even garner that title), one night stands, and they become very self-serving and self-centered because deep within their minds they know they have compromised and given up what is most important to all of us -- and that is our core of conviction. What we believe. Individually. It's a terrible vicious circle which has left many gay men emotionally bankrupt and although the act of sex allows them to have their sexual needs fulfilled (and that issue can be put to question), it does not allow them to truly enjoy the value of what our sexuality brings to us as homosexual men. Even more tragically, this mindset has also allowed us to see the development of one of the most horrific diseases mankind has encountered as well as behold the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people who have succumbed to its ravaging power.

The first "C" of Love making is Conviction. If we are men who enjoy frottage as our principal means of sexual expression we should not be made to feel by anyone that it contradicts what it means to be sexual as homosexual men. Know and identify within you why you don't practice anal sex. If the act of sexual penetration disgusts you identify it and identify why it does. If you're frightened by the possiblity of contracting a sexually transmitted disease make it clear to yourself and without offense to the person you'll be engaging with sexually. If you feel that the act of sexual penetration induces feelings within you of feminine and masculine type sex, or "top and bottom" sex, know that. Whatever it is that causes you to believe against anal penetration allow your conviction regarding it to guide you in your sexual expression.

Secondly, allow your conviction to foster your Confidence. Webster's defines confidence in this way: "The absolute certainty..." and " doubt" as well as "...a firm belief in one's own powers." Know that because your sexual expression is not widely practiced within our community you can have the assurance that we are not second class or are sexually immature or alone. There are a number of us in the community who practice frottage and as many who would prefer to practice it but are as I described above. Frottage has been practiced for centuries, in both gay and straight communities. Be confident in knowing that full body contact is how you derive your deepest sexual pleasure and you want to have your partner enjoy the experience as well. It does not induce pain and bodily fluids are only co-mingled outside the body. Know that you're surrounded by many men in our community ranging in ages and from different walks of life who share and understand the pleasure of frottage, who have felt the rejection of those who have made statements like "...Oh...can you really get off that way?" or the uncertainty of how to answer a question like "Are you top or bottom?" Excercise your Confidence. It's there for the taking.

Finally, there's Contentment. Don't allow yourself to get caught up in the deceit of anal penetration. When you live up to your beliefs and you know that there are others whose primary sexual satisfaction is frottage allow yourself the Contentment that your conviction and confidence will bring you. Be content in who you are as a gay man who enjoys frottage. Realize that you will meet men who don't understand what you enjoy sexually. (I've actually met some men who had no idea what frottage is). Be content in knowing that if you are not in a relationship and you enjoy the excitement various encounters may bring, that one encounter may be the one who may become your soulmate. And he's a frottager. When you meet up with that man wherever you may encounter him and he is interested merely in anal penetration as the climax to your encounter, you must live by your conviction, excercise your confidence, and rest in your Contentment. Whether you're wanting something that's lasting and with permanence or enjoy various encounters.

My partner and I live in the suburban area just outside Atlanta, Georgia and have been enjoying our monogamous relationship since January 1996. Frottage is our primary mean of sexual expression for one another and debunks the often-asked questions of "who's the top or bottom" or "who's the man and who's the woman." We are both openly gay men with our friends, families, and colleagues.


Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


WOW - Levi's501 - That was an excellent post. I completely agree with your philosophy of love and life. The three c's can be applied to so many aspects of our lives, but most importantly in our relationships!


Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


In this and the previous discussion [MAKE LOVE -- not fuck], we are reading again about the frustration of "regular guys" who are physically and mentally MALE trying in vain to fit-in somewhere in what is euphemistically termed the "gay community."

Unfortunately this jaded world of "top/bottom," femme and butch, he/she etc. is in so many ways alien to those who seek to identify with each other as males, not as substitute pussy. Many of us here have simply given up trying to "belong" in such a weird atmosphere where one partner is categorized as a catcher and the other a pitcher.

We seek to join with a buddy as two guys together, mating as MALES and enabling us to achieve union together as masculine equals, anatomically and mentally.

I would guess there are countless others who cannot identify with the expectations of either gay or straight society.

This group is for those "regular guys" who need to know they are not alone.


Bill Weintraub

Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


Warrior Levis and his partner have brought up something very very important with this post, which both Don and David immediately recognized

And that is how we live our lives.

Which is what this Heroic Homosex site and our struggle are really about.

In Phallic Masculine Heroic I cite Parzival as an example of a hero.

Parzival is a fictional character brought to life by the medieval poet Wolfram von Eschenbach.

Not the Parsifal of Richard Wagner's opera, which is quite different.

Wolfram von Eschenbach was a 13th century knight -- a warrior, not a cleric -- and his epic Parzival is important not only because it's great literature, but because, as Joseph Campbell says, it's "the earliest definition of the secular mythology that is today the guiding spiritual force of the European West."

What does that have to do with us?

A lot.

Because Parzival is a story of the quest for the Grail, the symbol of a life spiritually fulfilled. But the way it's attained in Wolfram's telling, to continue quoting Campbell, is

not by renouncing the world, but by participation with every ounce of one's force in the century's order of life in the way dictated by one's own uncorrupted heart: what mystics call the Inner Voice.

...For there's no fixed law, no established knowledge of God, set up by prophet or priest, [and, I would add, no cultural tyranny, set up by analists or racists or anyone else,] that can stand against the revelation of a life lived with integrity in the spirit of its own brave truth.

[emphases mine]

That's what levi's 501's and his partner are talking about: following the dictates of one's own uncorrupted heart, and the revelation of lives lived with integrity in the spirit of their own brave truth.

That's what Cockrub Warriors and Heroic Homosex are about: living your life with integrity, in the spirit of your own brave truth, not the lies of the buttfuck boyz; and participating with every ounce of your force in the life of your time in the way dictated by your own uncorrupted heart.

That means witnessing to the truth of your lives as levis and his partner have done on this board and among their own circle of friends and acquaintances.

Wolfram was a warrior, and his creation Parzival is a warrior, as are levis and his partner and Don and David.

Because they participate in the life of their time by witnessing to their own brave truths.

There's no other way to be a warrior.

That's how it's done -- anything else is just phony male posturing.



Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


That's a very beautiful statement and really describes what it's all about for me!

Bill Weintraub

Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


thank you david

i suspect that some people don't understand what i'm talking about with Parzival

but it's like this

Achilles risked all to avenge Patroclus

Aristogeiton risked all to protect Harmodius

Alexander did it to unite a world

Abelard for Heloise

Tristan for Isolt

and Faust to gain the infinite

but Parzival risks everything for Integrity

he alone, of the great pre-modern heroes, does that

and though he has to wander in the wilderness for awhile, by his refusal to surrender his integrity, he forces the Trinity to bend to his will -- not in a sacrilegious way, but in way that transforms his world

so our club is about integrity

it's so easy, after all, to become a buttfuck boy --

all you have to do is roll over

or stick your dick in a hole

and then you're part of the crowd -- you belong

but the men in this club won't do it --

instead they remain faithful to their brave dreams and their brave truth

my lover, whom i'm remembering today, was a man of great integrity -- and in a world of people all too eager to compromise to get ahead, his integrity gave him tremendous power -- he was handsome and brilliant, but it was for his integrity that he was most respected and admired

and that's why this post from warrior levis is so important -- because it speaks to the power of one's convictions

if each of you in this club respect what you believe and act on its power, we will have a swift and easy victory

and life will improve for all men who have sex with men



Re: The "CCC's" of Lovemaking -- not f*****g.


An excellent post.

I know I will come back to it and read it over several times.

As an out and proud cocktocock frottager ... this post was an affirmation of our group self confidence and an addition to my own ways of expressing how I feel about male2male sex and the wider analist culture. Reading it was like talking intimately with a like-minded human being.

I urge all to take the time to properly read this post.




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