Bill Weintraub

Re: Cocking together

5-10-2003

note from bill:

when Doug first emailed me, he wrote under his real name with his home email address

when i pointed that out to him, he wrote back, "Usually go by "thor" or "rama govinda" around sex communications - but i guess i inadvertently outed myself with you tonight - what the hell - doug"

this is my response:

hi doug

actually, a surprisingly large number of straight-identified men do what you did -- that is, inadvertently "out" themselves in emails to me

i'm not sure why that is, but you should know that -- it's not an unusual behavior

my guess is that many straight-identified men like yourself have been keeping this particular secret for many years, and they just need to let go of it

so the idea of the site, particularly vis-a-vis straight guys -- who i always refer to as straight-identified men, since, in my experience, no man is truly straight -- virtually all men have some same-sex erotic needs and desires -- the idea of the site vis-a-vis str8 guys is that it be comfortable and inclusive enough that they can express themselves

that's what the site is intended to do and apparently succeeds in doing -- at least a fair amount of the time

now it isn't clear to me that you understand the difference between frot and mutual JO -- and forgive me if you do, i don't mean to patronize

but FROT is phallus-against-phallus sex -- often called cockrub or cock2cock or dick2dick -- so it's underside of shaft against underside of shaft held that way either in one fist or through a hard embrace

and we often refer to it on the site as phallic bonding or phallic mating

which is what it is

it's a uniquely male sexual act, and it's the only thing two men can do together which is mutually genital

so we say of frot that it's uniquely male and uniquely ours

what i suggest you do is read The Man2Man Alliance home page

and then click on Luke Shelton's name to link to read Beatific

where he talks about his youthful frot experiences as well as his relationship with his wife -- well worth reading

Luke, after a 30 year hiatus, now has a cockrub buddy and says that sex with his wife is better than ever

which is what i would expect

we don't believe, and we don't see cross-culturally or historically any evidence, that cockrub affairs interfere with married life

the sex and the emotions involved in phallic bonding are way different from those involved in a male-female relationship and penile-vaginal sex -- what we call on the site "biological mating"

so luke is far more relaxed and actually more likely to initiate sex with his wife now than he was for 30 years

she doesn't know why -- or at least i don't think she does -- but hopefully she likes it

doug, thank you for your post

you think or thought that you were unique -- you're not, but there are a lot of other men out there suffering in the dark

and your post will help them the way others helped you

you know, my first lover was a wonderful gay-identified man who died of AIDS, but my current lover was, until a few months ago, a straight-identified man who thought he was the only guy on earth who loved squirrel and lusted after cock

but he isn't

that's patrick

and he's a sweetheart -- i really love him -- and his work is terrific too

what sort of jock were you Doug?

Patrick was a kick-boxer -- for real -- and he's still pretty fierce -- i wouldn't mess with him

men like yourselves who embrace the truth about cock2cock know that

Doug

Re: Cocking together

5-11-2003

you are definitely cool. re my thor email address - that's the name i gave my cock as a teen by the way.

somehow i just belong here - you were not patronizing, just helpful - thanks. i'll read the other writings later - i agree, and teach young men that none are exclusively gay or straight, just a matter of what you want to play out. sorry for all the anal/abstinence garbage - thanks for warrioring there too.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Cocking together

5-11-2003

thanks doug dude

re thor

a lot of guys on the site are into that mythic aspect of cock, cockrub, and wrestling -- see for example Masculinity and Spirit, Phallic Masculine Heroic and Superheroes, Myths, and Wrestling Buddies

re anal/abstinence:

The Man2Man Alliance and Heroic Homosex are a third force and a middle way between the extremes of analism and abstinence

the analists claim that anal is the defining male2male act

it isn't -- anal can be hetero too

only FROT is uniquely M2M

while abstinence is often used as a code word for anti-gay

we're working on that issue with our fundamentalist friends

one problem is that too many in the abstinence community think that men who have sex with men cannot abstain from sex

both the abstinent and the analists have, in that regard, a sort of colonialist mentality about gay men -- they treat gay men like children, who are unable to control their appetites

the reality, as the men on this site well know, is that gay and bi men can be abstinent, and often are when faced with the choice between anal penetration and no sex

they choose no sex -- they are celibate, sometimes for years

and that's an honorable choice, and we need to see it that way

rather than dishonor their bodies and their selves with the degrading, dangerous, and dirty act of anal penetration, they choose abstinence

in that regard we honor and support abstinence on this site

but we also encourage men who want to have a male partner to look for that man -- not through promiscuous sex, but through a conscious process of seeking a cock2cock comrade, a frot brother, a dick2dick love

and to be faithful to that man -- sexually exclusive with him -- to practice what we call Phallic Fidelity

so we all have to warrior -- to fight the two forces opposed to authentic M2M:

the homophobes, who believe that any sex between men is bad

and the analists, who degrade sex between men through an enfeebling, dangerous, and dishonorable act

when our fight is won -- and it will be -- both the buttfuck and hetero dictatorships will be overthrown

and men will be free to be true to themselves, true to other men, and true to their sacred masculinity

Doug

Re: Cocking together

7-23-2003

I wanted to add to the orginal posting - so much has happened since then - for one thing i've read and reread so much of the writing on this site - great education and great stimulus to focus my thinking and feeling about my self and my sexuality.

I do not recommend or urge anyone to do what i am about to share - it's just part of my story. I'm sharing it here because this site has had such a powerful effect on me - several men have come forward into my life through it in a variety of ways - it leads me to see and believe that there truly is a phallic brotherhood of men - and i want to return some of the support that i have gotten through this brotherhood.

Married for 28 years, hiding my male sex needs from others and myself, the past few months have been a kind of watershed for me - in an argument with my wife a couple of months ago i told her i was bisexual (remember - i do not recommend doing what i do) - and that i wanted to have sex with men - that it was a natural part of myself that i am sick of hiding, the need is genuine and not threatening for me to our marriage - and i mean that - as i give my self permission to satisfy my cock needs with other mens cocks and my own the anxiety and edge that i have carried for so many years steadily goes down -

Upsetting tho the past couple of months have been in my relationship, i look in the mirror these days and like who i see - and see so much more to myself - her fear of abandonment is real for her, but to me - the ability to flat out look at the pictures like the ones on this site and get hard and just love it - and to talk to other guys about being turned on by them and just love it - and openly seek a frot bud and be happy that i am - is worth it - the last thing in the world that i want to do is wreck the family, marriage and friendship that we have built over the years - choosing to work it through this way - counselling, long painful talks, and painful silence - and more - is currently leading me to have to focus on what i want in life at this time, how to handle it with the constraints that a marriage has, that a family has - it's a renewal for me - and i am fortunate that my partner understands that and is also trying to find a way to allow me to fulfill my sexual/male needs within her view of marriage.

The contact that i have had has been unbelievably fulfilling - this orgasmic/cock connection with another guy is electric and awesome - deeply, deeply satisfying union with another naked man blending cocks and orgasm - keep wondering why it was so important to deny this connection - how vital it is, how natural it is - and how much more functional it can make me feel in the rest of my life.

Interesting to me that in my work i have had to handle many difficult things - life threatening violence, deep trauma, lawsuits, and on and on - takes a lot of strength to do what i have done -and i got a lot of acknowledgement for it; yet, there was always this voice of weakness in the back of my mind that said "yeah, but if they knew about your homosexual experiences, your longing for more - it would be all over - you're weak" - and i lived off that - or rather, i stressed off that for years - since i've mostly stopped running from desire and started to embrace it, I actually feel more relaxed - more ok with myself. Other married guys that i have talked to who are in similar circumstances pretty much say the same thing. The frustration remains of wanting a frot bud and not having one nearby - thank god for chat rooms and email right now - but even that i believe will emerge when the time is right for me - so much else is beginning to come into focus for me that i just have to believe that the rest is on its way.

Bill was so right on when he wrote that "you are not alone" - for so many of us who are straight identified and trying to blend the duality of our sex needs - and really the duality of our total relationship needs - this site is a great referent point - to appreciate all men and respect ourselves at a much deeper level, knowing that we are not weird wacked or alone - I know that is true for me.