Reply from:

Bill Weintraub

Re: first time frot

11-10-2010

Thank you C W.

It's a hot story, but it has an unhappy ending which is going to get unhappier.

Guys, you need to see this post as a companion piece to AJ's to feel my Manhood against his.

In both cases, the guys had relationships -- although C W's was far more etiolated than AJ's -- with a guy they'd met in college.

And in both cases, they let the relationships lapse.

Now they want them back.

Guess what?

It's not going to happen, at least and certainly not via the internet.

And it's not going to happen until guys like C W and AJ develop a strong and abiding sense of how deeply and irrevocably they've been SHAFTED by society.

And in particular by the bifurcation into "gay" and "straight," which both social scientists and geneticists say is false.

I discuss their views in my reply to Warrior Eric's Staying Strong and Masculine.

I'm not going to repeat all of that discussion here, because I really want you guys to read Staying Strong and Masculine -- it's a very important post.

But I will note that the academics and scholars we quote in Staying Strong and Masculine, led by Richard Horton, editor of the prestigious UK medical journal the Lancet, say that

"gay" and "straight" do NOT exist as "inherent biological classes . . . in some unchangeable sense."

Horton also strongly condemns those who "adopt the idea of the homosexual as a physical 'species' different from the heterosexual."

And adds, while reviewing the work of scholars such as Michel Foucault, that "there are no convincing historical grounds for this view."

Which of course is what we say too.

And Horton quotes an historian named Jonathan Ned Katz who says

"Contrary to today's bio-belief, the heterosexual/homosexual binary is not in nature, but is socially constructed, therefore deconstructable."

What all that means is that the division of society into "gay" and "straight," which plays such a HUGE and TYRANNICAL part in the lives of Men today -- is totally and utterly FALSE.

That it does not exist in nature.

That it is therefore, UNnatural.

And that it's an idea which was constructed or put together by a society -- which wishes to keep MEN -- apart.

From other MEN.

So -- in order for that to change, guys like C W and AJ need to get very very very ANGRY about it.

And then actually do something to change it.

And I don't see that happening.

Which means their best chance for a relationship -- a true MAN2MAN relationship -- is behind them.

It's gone.

In the ancient world, guys, relationships between and among youths and young Men in the city-states developed naturally out of friendships which were formed primarily at the palestrai-gymnasia.

The palestra being a combination of wrestling school and boxing school and pankration school -- and a school which educated the kids in reading, writing, and arithmetic -- and stuff like rhetoric and philosophy which nowadays you'd get in places like law school and grad school.

View of the Palestra at Miletus
Fight Pits were in the center of the school
Open air classrooms were on the sides

The palestra was also where the kids, when they were 18, did their military training.

So all the youth and young Men of the city were there.

Along with older Men who came in the afternoons to work out -- primarily by wrestling and boxing.

Most of the city-states themselves were very small -- Sparta was small -- most people knew each other, families knew each other, and there were all sorts of webs of connectedness bringing people together.

But it was the palaistra-gymnasion which was the main institution for youth.

And the only institution we have which even begins to approximate that is the residential college.

Interestingly, both AJ and C W had relationships at college.

And like I said, they want them back.

How?

How are you going to get them back?

You guys don't have the committment you need to get where you want to go.

You won't donate.

AJ is new here, but C W's been around for awhile.

His first post in Frot Club was in December of 2009.

Almost a year.

And nary a penny in that time.

What the fuck do you think's gonna happen, C W?

What?

Nothin's gonna happen.

You're not doing anything -- so nothing will happen.

The one person who stands a chance of getting what he wants is Warrior Brian Hulme.

Through his contact with our MAN2MAN Alliance, and by taking the lessons of the Alliance diligently to heart, this is how WARRIOR Brian now sees himself:

That's Man, Man the Fighter, Man the Warrior.

And that's how Brian now thinks of HIM-self.

And it's made him strong.

Brian tithes.

He's very clear about it.

He says, "God's fair."

Tithing means you give 10% of your income.

If your income goes up you give more.

If it goes down, you give less.

That's what Brian means by "fair."

And he's right.

It is fair.

Brian's also religious.

He worships the Warrior God.

People in the ancient world were religious.

A victorious Fighter and Nike join in crowning a Herm

They weren't Christians -- they lived in a pre-Christian era.

But they were very pious.

And, like Brian, they were very clear that you had to give in order to get.

This is from Xenophon, a professional soldier who was a contemporary of Plato and a student of Sokrates -- he's quoting Sokrates who's quoting a parable -- and in the parable, the speaker is Areté, the personification of Excellence and Goodness and Manly Virtue:

[O]f all things good and fair, the Gods give nothing to man without toil and effort. If you want the favour of the Gods, you must worship the Gods: if you desire the love of friends, you must do good to your friends: if you covet honour from a city, you must aid that city: if you are fain to win the admiration of all Hellas for virtue, you must strive to do good to Hellas: if you want land to yield you fruits in abundance, you must cultivate that land: if you are resolved to get wealth from flocks, you must care for those flocks: if you essay to grow great through war and want power to liberate your friends and subdue your foes, you must learn the arts of war from those who know them and must practise their right use: and if you want your body to be strong, you must accustom your body to be the servant of your mind, and train it with toil and sweat.

Memorobilia, 2.1.28

And really this is not difficult:

"[O]f all things good and fair, the Gods give nothing to man without toil and effort. If you want the favour of the Gods, you must worship the Gods: if you desire the love of friends, you must do good to your friends" etc.

You don't understand that?

You should have learned it in kindergarten.

"If you want the favour of the Gods, you must worship the Gods: if you desire the love of friends, you must do good to your friends . . . if you want land to yield you fruits in abundance, you must cultivate that land: if you are resolved to get wealth from flocks, you must care for those flocks," etc

But you won't do it.

Fine.

You will not get what you want.

Won't happen.

Not ever.

Most of you, including I think it's fair to say, C W, would rather see your dicks fall off than tithe to this site and this Alliance.

You need the money for the important things in life like, you know, cable TV.

But the work of this Alliance, this MAN2MAN Alliance, is about Masculinity.

YOUR Masculinity.

And Manhood.

YOUR Manhood.

And you're going to find it very very very very very very very very very very very very very difficult to get what you want romantically or even sexually in a society which believes that "men who have sex with men" constitute, de facto, a separate species which is effeminized and which SHOULD BE effeminized.

Now -- here's what I said -- "a separate species which is effeminized and which SHOULD BE effeminized."

Don't think that's true?

Well then, just ck out this article from the ever-reliable New York Times, titled "For Gays, New Songs of Survival."

The songs, according to the Times, are being written and sung primarily by "straight" FEMALES -- among whom the leader is Lady Gaga, who is, says the Times,

arguably the biggest gay idol of the decade.

Gay Idol

The Times:

Her next single, the title track from her forthcoming album, "Born This Way," isn't due out until early next year. But Elton John has told Entertainment Weekly that it "will completely get rid of Gloria Gaynor's 'I Will Survive' as the gay anthem." A vocal snippet of the chorus, lifted from a brief a cappella rendition of the song at the MTV Video Music Awards, has already been remixed into a pulsating battle cry of selfhood that plays in gay nightclubs, at circuit parties and on fan-made videos across the Web.

Hmmmm.

"Born This Way" -- sounds genetic to me.

And Sir Elton John has already endorsed it.

As a "pulsating cry of selfhood."

Sounds biologically-determined, doesn't it?

Even though, scholars tell us, "the heterosexual/homosexual binary is not in nature."

These girls -- real and otherwise -- just don't agree.

Dan Savage, the tiny and stable "gay" guy and "sex" advice columnist so beloved of the Times, says the female pop stars are "a huge part of this fight."

Even though not all "gays" trust their motives:

For some, however, there is a whiff of opportunism behind the artists' good intentions. Ke$ha and Ms. Perry, who started their careers as irreverent party girls, suffered from a credibility problem early on. Eyes rolled in particular at Ms. Perry's first single, "Ur So Gay," a jab at image-conscious straight men that many critics said was homophobic, and at her breakout hit, "I Kissed a Girl," an ode to bisexuality that the lesbian singer Beth Ditto of the Gossip called "offensive to gay culture."

Hmmm.

So some of these females were "offensive to gay culture" at the start of their careers, but now consider it a good career move to become -- pro-gay.

Even though "gay" doesn't exist.

What about the effeminizing?

Well, besides the fact that Lady Gaga

is described as "the biggest gay idol of the decade" -- and idols, remember, are usually people you want to be --

my idols, for example, and when I was a boy, were boxers and baseball players --

not jejune singers.

But today, jejune is all the rage.

The Times says of one song that

Its appeal to the gay community was solidified with a video that featured both a man who was seen changing into women's clothes and two boys defiantly locking lips . . .

Another Hmmmmm.

Because "a man changing into women's clothes" is juxtaposed with a picture of "two boys defiantly locking lips."

Thus conflating transvestism -- which, psychologists and sexologists agree is overwhelmingly practiced by males who identify as "straight" -- and "homosexuality."

The Times, ordinarily so scrupulous about matters of fiction and matters of fact, doesn't care.

If it EFFEMINIZES guys -- it's good.

And if it nails the identification of "gay" with effeminate and its corelative buttsex -- it's even better.

The Times' article also features two gay-identified males who have a youtube site with "Legalize Gay" plastered all over it.

One has to wonder if those males realize that "gay" has been legal in most places for decades and EVERYWHERE in the US since 2003.

But nevermind.

The point of the article is to present "gays" as an oppressed, biologically-discrete, effeminized-by-nature group of genetically-determined and immutably-"homosexual" males who are completely dependent on commercially-motivated females -- with whom they identify and whom they idolize -- to come to their defense.

And that's the general cultural view:

"Males who have sex with males" constitute, de facto, a separate and discrete species of human being which is effeminized and which SHOULD BE effeminized.

Yes, yes, that's what society OVERWHELMINGLY believes.

And if you think you can go up against that all by your very little lonesome self --

You're wrong.

You're gonna lose.

Each and every time.

Both AJ and C W had their best chance at getting what they wanted when they were in college.

AJ had it and let it go.

He hasn't said why.

Possibly because he thought Man2Man was incompatible with marriage.

A truly ridiculous idea, but one which is very widespread, to put it mildly, in our culture.

C W says that he and his roommmate "never really talked about what happened" and then lived separately.

Why?

Why didn't you make an effort to hold on to what you had?

Neither of you apparently did that.

And now you find yourselves out in the big wide world --

all alone.

So you're screwed.

You've been fucked up the butt --

by the biggest and meanest buttfucker there is.

What do I mean by that?

Do I mean Life?

Yes, in a sense, but really this is about a specific area of Life, an area which has been totally created by human beings, and that's "sexual orientation."

And "sexual orientation" has fucked you over and continues to fuck you over -- each and every moment of your lives.

And it's big -- it's found throughout Western and Western-oriented societies throughout the world;

and it's mean and mean-spirited and very destructive --

and its big, mean, destructive powers are ALL aimed at YOU.

Well, when that happens to you -- when something which is very destructive takes aim at you and starts fucking you over -- you have to FIGHT it.

If you don't Fight it, the screwing will continue.

Over and over and over again.

Because society has you where it wants you.

You're this helpless faggot who can't get what he wants --

not at least, without surrendering his Masculinity.

Despite the fact that he's married, AJ's been doing oral and anal.

Kinda takes your breath away, doesn't it?

He's endangering his and his wife's life -- to get what he calls "relief."

When he asks one of his "partners" to do cock2cock -- they laugh at him.

And then he has "sex" with them -- buttboy "sex," shitfairy "sex" -- anyway.

Quite a trade-off -- isn't it?

AJ trades his self-respect, his manhood, and very possibly his life -- to get some "relief" with a buttqueen.

And doesn't that sound like fun?

Here -- Look:

Wouldn't you just love to stick your dick in that creature's shit-filled hole?

No?

Well then, I guess it'll have to stick its "dick" in yours.

Because those are your only options:

Top.

Or bottom.

C W says he would like to find another "hot guy."

But C W, you had your hot guy -- your roommate.

You guys knew each other in a way that can't be replicated.

Ever.

You said in your post that you "grew an attraction" towards one another.

Good choice of words -- your mutual attraction grew.

Like a garden which you cultivated --

you know, watered it, fed it, weeded it.

You "grew an attraction."

That's what you have to do.

But how -- in heaven or on earth -- are you gonna do it in a big wide world which is so unrelentingly HOSTILE towards a "man" like yourself C W?

How you gonna do it?

I've proposed things you could do that might give you a Fighting, as it were, chance.

Like putting together a Regional Chapter.

In which you might, for example, all train in MMA together.

That would do wonders for you.

You don't wanna do it.

Fine.

Do nothing, and nothing will change.

At least not for the better.

But just ten of you guys tithing in the way Brian does would give us the funds we need to begin to have an impact.

Just ten.

Ten.

That's all it would take.

Sad, isn't it?

Or it will be in a few years.

When you think that you could have had what you wanted for so little -- but wouldn't part with it.

C W probably thinks I'm being mean to him.

Bad Bill.

But here's the deal.

I'm 62, I've been around a few years.

And I've seen what Life does to guys like AJ and C W.

Compared to Life, C W, Bill Weintraub is a sweetheart.

And he's giving you good advice.

You need to get crackin' and get with the program.

Before there's no more program -- you can get with.

Bill Weintraub

November 10, 2010

© All material Copyright 2010 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Reply from:

Warrior Brian Hulme

Re: first time frot

11-25-2010

Hi Bill, I read Warrior CW's "first time frot", and your reply, may I say, I was more than a little surprised to see me used as an example, am I really one who "stands a chance of getting what he wants"? It does not feel like it from where I am sitting right now. But then as you say (in the last three years) I have become as the guy in the armour and "I really was reborn" and giving a tithe to the Warrior God through the Alliance, and being able to post and keep in contact with you has meant that I got stronger and stronger.

I watched the wreath laying service this month for Remembrance Sunday, and a 10 year old boy was there, with his mother, he was wearing his dead father's medals, he was asked why he was there he said "Because I am proud of my dad." The reporter said that she thought that he would have been proud of his son. I know I felt proud of the boy and how he had been brought up -- I had to stop myself yelling at the TV "Well done!"

War is always an expensive way of getting peace and stability but sometimes sadly a high price needs to be paid. I see some work and writing of posts and definitely 10% of my money as cheap for what I will get back, and I get to keep my life, and limbs, a great bargain I think.

With Warrior Love

Brian