saturday afternoons 4pm



saturday afternoons 4pm


this is just an amazing site. I have been into frot (only learnt it had a name within the last year or so) getting turned on by the sight of men wrestling, as long as I can remember.

Apart from the usual suspects - tarzan films, gladiator/ roman / biblical epics, the ultimate turn on was world of sport at 4pm.

It was really frustrating when they used to throw each other around, and not just get down on the mat and struggle, but still it threw up the odd gem. Johnny Saint was magnificent, manly, fair honest and an amazing chest. Saturdays were the most wonderful part of the week, somehow fate decided my parents were always out just before 4pm and not back until after 5. This allowed me the freedom to jerk myself stupid.

This site is amazing but I'm sure I'm not the only one for whom this site has also prevoked a strong sense of missed oportunities.


frot 40 uk

Bill Weintraub

Re: saturday afternoons 4pm


hey jack

thanks for a really great post

there are a lot of pages in Warriors Speak devoted to wrestling and superheroes, including Superheroes Part I, Superheroes Part II, and Warrior BradWrestle's Rubbing and TV Wrestling

so be sure to ck those out

what's interesting and affirming is how many of us discovered wrestling and rubbing all by ourselves as kids

when i published Hyacinthine Love in 1999, i thought i was the only person in the world who had had these feelings and fantasies

but when in August of 2000, i was able to put Hyacinthine up on the web and do some minimal publicity for it, i was inundated with emails and instant messages from guys saying, "you told my story"

and it wasn't just that i'd told their story in terms of anal and frot

it was that when we started comparing our lives, we discovered that our teen fantasies of wrestling and frot were so alike that it was as though we'd all grown up together in the same neighborhood and the same gang

but we hadn't

quite the contrary

we'd been raised in complete isolation from each other -- and we'd had absolutely no cultural supports for our fantasies and desires

that was when i realized how both innocent and natural our wrestling and frot feelings and fantasies were

and then something amazing happened:

straight-identified guys started coming on the site and saying -- i had and have those fantasies too

and then i realized that frot was not only innocent and natural, but that it was innately male too

that this was not about "gays" --

this is about guys

and it's really important that we all understand that

i was talking with Sensei Patrick about that last night, and he told me how when he was wrestling his buddy in high school, his feelings were a mix of aggression and sex -- of wanting to aggressively wrestle and rub

we were also talking about how those feelings were unique to guys we liked

we agreed that if we didn't like a guy, if he were a bully say, we didn't want to rub with him

what we wanted was to beat the shit out of him to get him out of our face

and then have nothing more to do with him

so that feeling which i've called our natural male sex aggression is a unique feeling related to wanting to test strength with another male whom we like through wrestling while bonding with him through cockrub

the feeling is both aggressive and affiliative

not at all the same thing as wanting to fuck a guy in order to dominate him -- not even close

rather, that aggressive cockrub feeling is intimately tied to the desire to bond with another man in a uniquely male way

to achieve the warrior bond through cock combat and phallic mating

Jack ends his post by speaking of missed opportunities

one of the things i've tried very hard to help men understand is that those missed opportunities are the result of having to live in and deal with two very entrenched cultures whose assumptions about men and sex are wrong

the first is mainstream gay male culture, which is analist -- it insists that anal penetration is the highest, best, and truest form of sex between men, divides men into masculine feminine / dominant submissive roles, and consistently denigrates other forms of male-male intimacy

the second is mainstream straight culture, which says that a real man -- a man who's into women -- doesn't ever connect sexually with another man

both cultures are wrong, and both are lying

anal is NOT the best form of sex between men - by any objective measure, it's the worst, because it's the least mutually pleasurable and the most dangerous

and men who are into women connect sexually with other men all the time

they just hide that it's happening, and use their relationships with women to conceal that they're also having sex with men

so -- both cultures need to be changed

and while it's natural to regret "missed opportunities," it's pointless to beat yourself up about them

because you didn't miss them -- you would have grabbed them if they'd been there -- rather, your culture deprived you of them

and the only way to get them back is to change the culture

i've been saying that for three years and it's just as true now as it was in August of 2000

key cultural assumptions about men and sex are wrong:

1. anal is not the highest but the lowest form of sex between men

2. guys who are into women can also be into men -- without any compromise or change in their devotion to women

and all the evidence suggests that it's normal for men to be to some degree bisexual

So: to the extent that the men who visit this site tell the truth about guys, sex, anal, and frot wherever they go and however they can -- the culture, and the m2m world -- will begin to change

to the extent that you do nothing -- nothing will change

i'm glad the site is here to provide so many of you with self-affirmation

but we have a long ways to go in reaching out to other men

and only you can shorten that road



Warriors Speak is presented by The Man2Man Alliance, an organization of men into Frot

To learn more about Frot, ck out What's Hot About Frot

Or visit our FAQs page.

Warriors Speak Home

Cockrub Warriors Site Guide

The Man2Man Alliance

Heroic Homosex

Frot Men


Frot Club

Personal Stories

| What's Hot About Frot | Hyacinthine Love | THE FIGHT | Kevin! | Cockrub Warriors of Mars | The Avenger | Antagony | TUFF GUYZ | Musings of a BGM into Frot | Warriors Speak | Ask Sensei Patrick | Warrior Fiction | Frot: The Next Sexual Revolution |
| Heroes Site Guide | Toward a New Concept of M2M | What Sex Is |In Search of an Heroic Friend | Masculinity and Spirit |
| Jocks and Cocks | Gilgamesh | The Greeks | Hoplites! | The Warrior Bond | Nude Combat | Phallic, Masculine, Heroic | Reading |
| Heroic Homosex Home | Cockrub Warriors Home | Heroes Home | Story of Bill and Brett Home | Frot Club Home |
| Definitions | FAQs | Join Us | Contact Us | Tell Your Story |

© All material on this site Copyright 2001 - 2010 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.