Bill Weintraub

Re: little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors

12-6-2006

Hey JK

Let's take a look:

Just wanted to pick your brain again to gain some deeper insights into your philosophy. My first question is where do little guys fit into the warrior culture.

People of any size can be warriors.

Women can be and are warriors.

I knew a Japanese woman who was 4' 7", weighed under 100 lbs, and who'd been trained in hapkido.

She could take out any other woman in the dojo.

Men too -- if she locked your arm, there was nothing you could do.

So it's not a question of size -- it's a question of knowing how to use your body.

Let me repeat that:

It's not a question of size -- it's a question of knowing how to use your body.

From what you've told me, you have a good body.

You need to learn how to use it.

I read one post where the guy was dismissing one of his coworkers saying any of the larger men could break him in half,

Yes, that was Robert.

Robert was critical of that guy not because he was small but because he wanted to be thin and un-muscular.

He had *chosen* a non-masculine, effeminized path.

but a lot of men are naturally small. Like most Asians.

Some Asians.

One important variable in size seems to be pre- and post-natal nutrition.

I think Asians will tend to get larger now, just as Europeans have.

In any case, martial arts came from Asia.

And again, size is not important.

Jackie Chan's not huge.

Bruce Lee wasn't huge.

Great fighters.

I know you can beat genetics through body building but only to a certain point.

Again, you don't need a huge body.

Weight-training can be useful.

But an over-built guy, particularly a guy who isn't flexible, can easily be taken out by a smaller guy with good technique.

So mainly it's a question of technique -- and heart.

NOT SIZE.

You don't need huge muscles.

If you look at UFC fighters -- some of them are big -- but the most effective fighters are not necessarily the most "built-up."

You need some muscularity -- you also need to be flexible -- you need cardio -- but most of all you need to know how to fight.

Here are some pix:

These are all professional mixed martial arts / UFC-style fighters.

The first three guys aren't, as you can see, particularly "muscular."

Then there's Rory Markham.

Rory has muscles.

But here he is in face-offs with two guys who have bigger muscles.

Rory Markham vs Brad Blackburn

Marcelo Azevedo vs Rory Markham

Rory defeated both these men.

And if you go to sherdog dot com and type in rory markham in the keyword search area, you can see pix of those fights.

How was Rory able to defeat Brad and Marcelo?

He's more skilled.

So it's not just muscle or size.

Naked Wrestler is not a particularly big man.

Neither is my husband.

My husband has taken out far larger men.

Even steroids can only get you so far. And no matter who you are there will always be someone bigger and more athletic.

Bigger yes.

More athletic -- maybe.

But so what?

It's a question of skill in the fight sports.

If you thought in those terms of bigger and better in other areas of your life, you'd never do anything.

Don't worry about the other guy.

Worry about you.

Also: a lot of martial arts training is inner.

You can think of it as a vision quest.

You're competing with yourself -- challenging yourself.

Probably one of the reasons why I used to reject sports as that I could not stand being judged inferior based on genetic factors that where out of my control.

I understand.

And I never strived to fit an artificial ideal that most men can never reach.

Yeah, but the ideal is an ideal and it's in your head.

Again, stop worrying about the ideal and all the ways you think you don't measure up.

Start training.

And all that other stuff will melt away.

Sometimes I wish My dad was more of a hardass and trained me from an early age, However my friends dad was like that and he still ended up a nerdy bookworm in spite of all the pushing. Like My friend I have always found more joy in creativity and spiritual practice than in fighting. That said I am beginning to enjoy and pursue my aggressive side more,

Great!

and like all guys I do enjoy wrestling and horse play ect.

Right.

however some men do not know how to exercise there might with respect.

Yes, and we have a word for them -- they're assholes and they're always brought down.

That leads me to the next question. What about the shadow warrior? This is the Archetype that is more valued these days. It seams like villains are the new heroes (Sopranos, Ganstas, and the like)

JK, that's just pop-culture junk.

And that instead of a mutual exercise of aggression, guys are more so taught to humiliate and embarrass their opponents.

Maybe in pro-wrestling -- which is theater.

But not in the true fight sports.

As Naked Wrestler has explained, the fight sports are a cooperative enterprise.

You're expected to show respect for and to work with your fellow fighters.

I on the other hand would like to exercise my aggression minus all the shit talk and victory dances, But for allot of guys the shit talk is far more important than the actions.

Yes, but they're not fighters.

They're nothing.

When you train in a martial art, you'll learn that you don't do trash talk.

Trash talk simply escalates a situation.

You're not interested in that.

The first indication your attacker should have that he was in a fight is that he's waking up or that he has a broken arm.

In other words, no trash talk.

Just action.

Some guys use trash talk on the street as a survival tactic.

As a martial artist you won't do that and you'll understand it's a poor choice.

It's like waving an unloaded gun around.

It's pointless.

We can see this most clearly in rap music. Eminiem can wage a verbal war, but If he were put in the ring with say 50cent I don't think he would do so well.

JK, it's a question of knowledge and heart.

In a street situation, a smaller man can easily defeat a larger man.

In the fight sports, men are matched by weight and skill level.

There are rules.

And there's a referee to make sure that no one gets badly hurt.

It's not Celebrity Death Match.

Again, there's a huge difference between pop culture and reality.

I really don't know how to talk shit and don't really care to. Do you have any suggestions to stand up to trash talkin without having to participate in it?

Yes!

Start training.

JK, at a certain point, you need to stop talking about this and just do it.

It's like Yoda in Star Wars: Don't try; DO.

Please start looking at dojos / fight schools.

You're young, you're in good shape, you have a good body, you have good lower body strength which is very important.

This is your moment.

Once you start training, you'll be AMAZED.

You'll wonder why you waited so long.

That's the truth.

And guys, this is true for virtually all of you.

Stop dickin around and start training.

One of our guys who's 56 just started training, and he wrote this to me:

I train three times a week. I never miss; it's the most important thing I do even though I am twice as old as the next oldest person there. I love being in the all male setting; I love the smell of the sweat. It just feels great to be there.

That's the good news.

Then there's this:

At the same time it's going slow. There is a 17 year old kid who started the same day I did and he is far ahead of me. He is almost ready to spar and I am still a long way off. I don't know why I didn't go when I was 17. I guess I just had to wait til it was time.

Right.

While I don't know for sure, my guess is that this man didn't go when he was 17 because he self-defined as gay and thought he couldn't go.

It wasn't until he found our site that he was empowered to finally do what he's dreamed of doing -- all his life.

If you're in your 20s, 30s, or 40s -- don't wait!

Do it now.

If you're in your 50s -- most places will try to accomodate you.

It won't go as fast as it would have when you were 17.

But at least you'll have done it.

And guys, please DONATE for the sake of all the guys who haven't yet found our sites and don't know they're not alone.

Learn how to fight.

And

FIGHT BACK.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Robert Loring

Re: little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors

12-7-2006

There are all kinds of Warriors just as there are all sizes of Men. Being a Warrior is not just physical but is also a State of Mind. You say that you " have always found more joy in creativity and spiritual practice than in fighting." So you must be a SPIRITUAL WARRIOR but a WARRIOR nevertheless!!

As for the shittalk, Masculinity and being a Warrior involves SELF DISCIPLINE. Masculine Warriors of the past have all been taught that becoming a Warrior of any kind begins with self discipline. Self discipline is one of the basis' of the martial arts. It is also the basis of the Biblical experience as the term "humble" originally meant "self disciplined" NOT meek and weak.

So where do naturally small guys fit into the Warrior lot?

ANSWER: Right among all the other Warriors of all shapes and sizes!!

Bill Weintraub

Re: little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors

12-7-2006

Thank you Robert.

You're right that there's a place for naturally small guys among all the other Warriors.

The thing about JK though is that he's told me his height and weight, and if he's told me correctly, he's actually not a small guy.

He's just two or three inches shorter than the national average.

And his weight is average.

So he THINKS he's small.

He's not.

Robert has often said, Change the thinking, change the behavior.

So far as I can tell, JK in the past has thought of himself as small and weak and someone to be used sexually.

And that has begun to change.

Which is good.

But I don't think JK's past self-image is unusual among gay-identified men in general and among gay-identified men of his generation in particular.

That's why I'm so concerned about gender theory and the transgender movement.

Because I think it has the effect of reinforcing that very negative sort of effeminized thinking among guys like JK.

Case in point:

When Patrick was in college, there was a guy in one of his classes named Eugene.

Eugene was a very large man, but he was also gay-identified and effeminate.

One day Patrick came upon a group of guys bashing Eugene -- who was passively taking their blows.

Patrick knocked some heads together and the guys ran off and the campus police showed up.

But in the meantime Patrick had said to Eugene, "Don't you understand that you could have defended yourself -- that you could have easily hurt your attackers?"

Eugene didn't understand that.

Eugene BELIEVED that he couldn't fight.

Even though he was large.

That's why I posted those pictures.

I'm trying to get across that this is not a matter of muscle per se nor even size.

It's a matter of self-image and self-perception.

Old saying: It's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog.

Patrick is not a big guy.

But to an attacker, he's dangerous.

Because he's willing to fight.

Now -- in our modern world, it's no longer common, particuarly among middle-class people, for guys to grow up knowing how to fight.

Kids are discouraged from fighting.

Not true in the past.

In the message thread titled A Toast to all Frot-brothers, Frances mentioned Abe Lincoln, and I talked about Lincoln's wrestling match with Jack Armstrong.

In researching that, I found other references to the young Lincoln wrestling and otherwise horsing around.

For example:

Here Abe did not tarry long, probably not over a month, but long enough to dispose most effectively of one Daniel Needman, a famous wrestler who had challenged the returned boatman to a test of strength. The contest took place at a locality known as "Wabash Point". Abe threw his antagonist twice with comparative ease, and thereby demonstrated such marked strength and agility as to render him forever popular with the boys of the neighborhood.

He enjoyed the brief distinction his exhibitions of strength gave him more than the admiration of his friends for his literary or forensic efforts.

And then there was this:

My favorite description is that of Elliot Herndon, William H. Herndon's brother. He succinctly summed up young Lincoln: "I would say he was a cross between Venus and Hercules".

So:

1. These guys liked to wrestle and clearly it was common for them to challenge each other.

2. They didn't hesitate to refer to each other in very warm and affectionate terms -- terms which today would be suspect.

And that's the problem.

In Lincoln's era, men could be both strong and affectionate.

In our era, these attributes are seen as mutually exclusive.

But they're not.

A naturally masculine man can both fight another man and have a loving sexual relationship with another man.

And that's what I want JK -- and the rest of you -- to understand.

Indeed, I would argue, as has my foreign friend, that for a man to fully realize his natural masculinity, he needs to experience both the "roughs and toughs" of male life, and the intimacy of phallic bonding.

Thank you JK and Robert.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Robert Loring

Re: little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors

12-8-2006

JK asks what about guys who are naturally small like most Asians. Fact is that Asian males have tended to be great warriors throughout human history! The Samurai were great and noble warriors in Japan. The Mongols, many of which are small men, were some of the most feared warriors of all time. Europe greatly feared the Golden Hordes as they marched closer into Eastern Europe and what they feared most was the Mongol talent for quick and effective combat. Mongol males made up for their small size by being quick and efficient warriors! And most small guys are quick BTW especially during a fight! Big guys might have physical power to deliver one hard blow but small and skinny guys can deliver several rapid blows.

Bill is right, most middle class males are no longer taught how to fight and many are being feminized as we speak. No longer are boys who come home beat up being told by their fathers to "Stand up and fight like a Man!". Now it's mommy and daddy calling the police, filing lawsuits, and all that other peaceful ROT!! So instead of growing up TOUGH boys are growing up WEAK and SISSIFIED. These boys grow up and become men. Men who are cowards and LACK the BALLS to KICK ASS!! They were CONDITIONED as boys to be weak and meek. They need to change their thinking, change their behavior!!

There are many males who have an skewed perception of themselves. This skewed self perception stems from their years of growing up and being conditioned to think of themselves in certain ways. Take for instance the skinny boy who grew up being constantly reminded of how skinny and weak he was. One day he looks in the mirror and discovers he has NATURAL LEAN MUSCLE and suddenly his self perception is thrown into chaos. The image in the mirror goes against everything he's been TOLD! It now becomes his task to change his self perception and fight years of conditioning! It becomes his task to stop seeing himself as WEAK and change his thinking. This is no easy task as he is fighting against years of brainwashing by parents, peers, teachers, coaches, etc.

Physical strength is one thing but REAL STENGTH is found in a male's MIND. That is why the small Mongols were so feared and effective as Warriors! Physically they were small Asian men but in their minds they perceived of themselves as strong and mighty WARRIORS! They became what they thought! In weightlifting you might notice that weight rooms are often covered with mirrors. The weightlifters image is reflected all over the room so he can see himself. This has a psychological component to it because in viewing himself lifting weights he can see muscle and that image begins to change the guys thinking and self perception. As he sees himself lifting weights he begins to see himself as strong. This image burns into his mind and he does in fact begin to become strong both physically and PSYCHOLOGICALLY.

I have often wondered just how many feminized males have been conditioned to grow us "sissy." How many of those boys were constantly poked fun of for being small, skinny, weak? How many were daily reminded by their fathers that they acted more like "girls" instead of "boys"? How many were butt raped by perverts and grew up never being allowed to forget the day they were molested? How many grew up to become men only to suddenly be raped and thrown into a sea of confusion and loss of manhood? With no one to talk to about their MALE feelings about being raped how many of these young men became even more confused and lost in their own minds? With no real masculine males in their lives how many of them were simply left to their own devices to work their way through dealing with having been raped because MALE RAPE is something our PSYCHOTIC SOCIETY doesn't want to talk about? How many males perceive themselves as "fems" and "sissies" when in FACT they really ARE NOT??

We can go through our lives playing the "old tapes" over and over in our minds. Tapes from our childhood that say we are weak, sissified, girly, etc. OR we can change our thinking and start telling ourselves we are just the opposite. The old "tapes" keep us locked in shame and feelings of inadequacy! Just because people in our lives tell us something over and over DOES NOT mean that what they say if TRUE! In fact, many times what people tell us over and over is WRONG!! Their perceptions of you do NOT have to be YOUR perceptions of YOU!!

Frances

Re: little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors

12-9-2006

Well, this got me thinking "wasn't Audie Murphy kind of small?" I had to think about it and actually wikipedia it because that's not really what I think of when I think of Audie Murphy. He was the most decorated combat veteran of WW II out of the vast multitude of Americans who fought. He was also a humane man who suffered "combat fatigue" and would later fight for mental health treatment for other combat veterans suffering from the mental fallout from mortal combat (something, clearly, Rory Markham isn't practicing, though, no doubt he would prove himself there also if he had to).

If you look at the way these UFC fighters are looking at each other you can clearly sense what must be for them a spiritual practice grounded in their masculine physicality.

That's a beautiful image of him getting ready to remove his whatever they call those tops they wear. He looks like he's somewhere deep within himself. I can imagine that as a vision quest, as Bill says, that he's on. He looks completely calm, though he appears as if he's physically readying himself for an imminent fight.

His opponents hardly look vicious. They look like they love and respect the guy, actually, though he looks pretty serious, which is why he probably beat them both.

Wikipedia: Audie Murphy was an 18 year old kid when he entered the service. He was 5' 5" tall and weighed 110 pounds. He was considered "fragile" and they wanted to keep him behind the lines. But, "he fought the system." At the end of the war, he had entered military legend. He was 5' 7" tall, and weighed 145 pounds.

Our society encourages us to split mind/body. But, we are neither one nor the other. We're both. Until we embrace that we really are living a schizoid existence.

I take heart from your struggle for self-realization.

I like Dylan's line: "Those not busy being born are busy dying." That's the challenge, isn't it?