Sir Robert

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

11-27-2002

Hey Jess I'm in Arizona too.

I dont see any love involved in anal sex. What I do see is pain and usary. I think anal is just a sex act void of passion. Cock2Cock, however, is different because I have always felt passion and other feelings while engaged in it. It is more than a sex act. It is a sharing and joining of two spirits between two men who consider themselves as equals. There is no domination and no anal humiliation.

You aren't the only one who was wanking away over those Greek statues...lol. I think you had many of us as company.

Sir Robert

Jess

11-28-2002

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

Fully agreed about everything you said Sir Robert. When My friends were bringing over vids to play, I was discussed by the sights and even the idea of anal sex. No, I never did it, but I still saw lots of pain involved. I have heard of people ripping others because of it and causing damage that needs lazar surgery to correct. *OUCH!!*

Even my artwork use to represent frottage in many ways. Even long before I even knew what it was.

Anyway, I am greatful to have finally found a group I can click with. I feel like I am among brothers here.

I use to know someone that went by the name of Sir Robert. I have not heard from him in years. Hmmmm. Your last name would not be Kellard, would it??

Robert Loring

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-1-2002

Nope, not the same guy you once knew.

You are among Brothers and I think that is what Cockrub Warriors here are all about, Brotherhood with dignity and with masculinity.

Ouch is right!! I fail to see how something so painful can be sexually exciting. Sex is a sacred act and is suppose to be enjoyable not torturous. Sex is also a joining of the spirits of the two people involved, at least it is suppose to be and is when there is love between the two. In cheap one night stands this doesn't happen.

cockster

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-2-2002

Hi, I was moved by the sincerity of these posts to add to the discussion.

As Bill and others have stated many times on this site ... anal sex ... can be defined as 'learned behaviour' ... an activity which is core to identifying with a group or culture ... in this case mainstream gay culture.

As you point out in your first post ... some men have a drive to have anal sex. They promote it even when they encounter ... intimately ... another man who wishes to have sex in a different way.

Learned behaviour is also about acting out a pattern ... a preconcieved series of actions which fulfill the desire to manifest an attachment to one's group.

This is why many anal orientated men assert ' well if you don't fuck you haven't had sex'. Or 'what's the point of getting it up if you don't stick it up something?'

Clearly, for us, these guys are simply not looking outside the box. There are many men for whom sexual interaction is not a preordained set of actions and roles which only lead to suck and fuck. Men aroused by and curious about male2male sexual erotic interaction naturally do not succumb to sexual paradigms. They meet as equals and consent to share a sexual interaction ... the influence of a third party ... amorphous cultural pressure ... is negated by their instinctive and natural mutual arousal ... face to face ... man2man ... cocktocock.

In a long winded way ... I want to say ... live on !! It takes time to find our cocktocock love ... Bill and Patrick's news over the last while should be a beacon to others looking for a cocktocock love.

As always, I reaffirm, be proud ... when a guy suggests fucking ... don't be humble about suggesting other horny and intimate ways of sharing eachother. Men respond and understand definite and certain responses from their male lover. And hell .... we all know how up front the analists are about demanding 'to fuck'. Cocktocock, frot and cocktocockjo guys should be the same ... but with more style !!!

Thaks for the opportunity to talk

love

cockster

Robert Loring

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-4-2002

Thanks Cockster...you have a way with words and expressing insight. It is so sad that in the mainstream gay community you must sacrifice yourself, your dignity, and you morals in order to "fit in". They really are Dictators. I think there are many gay men who would not engage in anal if they knew there was a group that did not promote it like this one. That is why we must get the message of this site out. It is a matter of human lives, gay or not. It is a matter of the restoration of a man's dignity, morals, and honor. Cock2Cock respects our dignity, morals, and honor. Anal degrades and erodes it.

There is no bigger "teacher" than social or group pressure and I agree that much of the anal behavior is learned behavior. So it needs to be UN-learned and this site and group is definetly a step in that direction.

Sir Robert

Bill Weintraub

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-4-200

thank you sir robert

for those who are new here, the cockster is the author, on this site, of a number of posts in Personal Stories, and of two pages in Warriors Speak; and the essays CocktoCock in Heroes, Sodomy Laws in Frot: The Next Sexual Revolution, and the short story STUDS

the cockster's also the author of a forthcoming book of CocktoCock stories, which we're all looking forward to

Bryan

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-08-2002

I am a boy aged 20.

I have a boyfriend who is 20 years older than me.

He was my english teacher.

I love him. So sometime I cann't refuses again and again about the requirement about anal fuck.

I really don't like anal sex.

Real.

But he wants it.

Many times i told him I hate that kind of sex. But everytime after anal sex, he would ask me whether i got pleasure from the anal .

I dont want to make him unhappy.

nearlly everytime i would say "yes ,a little bit."

I know i was lying. But i cann't tell him.

I just want to find one man who loves me too.

I don't want anal sex involed in my life.

But i can escape from it.

May be just because i am in china. It's not easy to find a westerner boyfriend.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-8-2002

hi bryan

first of all, like the rest of global pop culture, much of gay male culture worldwide takes its cues from America, and it's doubtful therefore your problem would resolve if you had a Western lover

what i encourage you to do is spend time on the site reading the posts here in Personal Stories and in Warriors Speak

hopefully, doing so will give you the courage to start being honest with your lover about anal

it's not uncommon for guys to do what you're doing, that is go along to get along, but that won't work in the long run

because you can't base a relationship on a lie, nor can you indefinitely ignore your own needs in favor of your lover's

in addition, every time you have anal sex, even if he's using a condom or claims to be monogamous, you're putting yourself at risk for HIV and other anally-transmitted STDs

unfortunately, a lot of men have sero-converted doing anal in the name of love, only to have their "lover" walk out a few weeks later

so you need to tell your lover that you won't do anal any longer

if he truly loves you, he'll respect the way you feel

if he doesn't, then no matter what he may tell you or may even believe, he's using you, and it's time for you to look elswhere

remember what the Cockster said in this message thread:

As always, I reaffirm, be proud ... when a guy suggests fucking ... don't be humble about suggesting other horny and intimate ways of sharing eachother. Men respond and understand definite and certain responses from their male lover. And hell .... we all know how up front the analists are about demanding 'to fuck'. Cocktocock, frot and cocktocockjo guys should be the same ... but with more style !!!

so i sympathize with your situation, but as is true with everyone else on the site, there's no way for your life to improve until you're willing to fight to improve it

Robert Loring

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-09-2002

Sadly, Bryan, many are in your position and what many fail to realize is when someone is forcing you to do something it is NOT love. It is usuary! They are satisfying their own desires and basically saying "to hell" with yours. This is NOT Love!!

In relationships where there truly is love (no matter what the sexual orientation is) the two people are involved in a Spiritual Partnership in which they honor and respect eachother and eachother's desires and needs. The relationship works on a TWO way street and not as a dictatorship by one of the partners.

Sorry Bryan but if this guy really loved you then he would respect your desire not to engage in anal sex. Real lovers DON'T take advantage of eachother and they DON'T do things that might harm eachother. Real lovers HONOR eachother and seek to enhance eachother.

Take some advice Bryan and DON'T ever allow ANYONE to do ANYTHING to you that you don't want to do. Remind yourself that you are better than that and that you dont need to engage in such demeaning activity such as anal. You are a man so be proud you are a man and be proud of your own masculinity. Anal destroys our sense of manhood and masculinity and anal enslaves us within our own minds. There is NO worse enslavement than that!! Liberate yourself by telling your lover "NO!".

Sir Robert

Vidaman

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

12-24-2002

Hi Jess, just read your Greek Reincarnate story and I could really relate. I, too, have been with men who only have one track anal minds and that turns me off. My birthday is tomorrow, December 25th and all I wanted is someone to dance close with and then have that personal closeness that only frottage brings. Didn't happen again this year. Well, maybe soon. Good luck in your search. Vidaman

Robert Loring

Re: Ancient Greek reincarnate

3-11-2003

Bill wrote:

"there's no way for your life to improve until you're willing to fight to improve it "

Bryan this is excellent advise because sometimes we have to fight to improve our lives. If you don't like anal then tell the guy and then it becomes his problem. The guy is making you do something that you do not want to do and that is always wrong and that is NEVER Love!! All he's doing is getting off at your expense. Is it worth it? Putting yourself at risk for HIV is a mistake. Fight to improve your life and find someone who will honor and love you as a MAN instead of trying to turn you into a woman. FIGHT TO IMPROVE YOUR LIFE just as Bill said brother!!

Sir Robert

Also by Robert Loring:

We ARE Warriors

Brothers of the Heart

A Case of Rape

The Ultimate Defeat

Also -- Our Man2Man Alliance sites feature a large number of articles about the Ancient Greeks.

Those are listed in the Heroes Site Guide, which can be found on all of our sites.