Bill Weintraub

12-20-2001

Re: sacred male bonding

in this post and his post under Jocks and Cocks, warrior dave aka cowboy angel wonders if there weren't secret Frot circles among pro athletes and says he could never figure out how to gain access to them

over the last year of doing this work, i've had one email from a guy who said that he was a former pro-wrestler (he sent a pic and he sure looked like a pro wrestler) and that there was a secret frot scene among body-builders and pro-wrestlers in LA

of course there's no way i could verify that (although those who want to try, might consider contacting Warrior Viking God under the Personals)

but it certainly makes sense to us that these guys would want to rub cocks

and it also makes sense that in the 70s most of us couldn't figure out how to make contact with those jocks, since the world had been separated into two very distinct groups: gays and str8s, and clearly one group had nothing to offer the other

so one of the things this club is about is bridging that gap, by showing both gay and str8 men that they don't have to be involved in aspects of sexual behavior that don't fit in with their conception of self and masculinity, and by showing them too that nothing is more male than two cocks rubbin in combat or love -- for, like our most recent warrior said, two hard cocks in conflict are the truest celebration of man2man.

warrior dave also says that "much heterosexual hostility toward homosexuality (as conventionally perceived by straights via the manifestations of conventional gay ghetto culture) was precisely because they perceive it as a violation - even a mocking - of that deeply sacred male bonding" which is "intimately tied to male pride."

and i think that's right too. in my Cockrub Warrior Interview i said that str8 unease about male homosexuality was not simply a function of religious right propaganda, but also a reaction to those many elements of contemporary gay male culture which would make any sensible person uneasy, including promiscuity, anal, the diseases spread by both, and effeminacy.

so that we need to look to ourselves, not just the nongay community, for behaviors that are homophobic and disconcerting to people of good sense and good will.

and that mocking tone towards bonds between str8 men, which as dave says, is something that those men themselves value deeply, the notion so prevalent among promiscuous gay men that men can never form bonds because they're too emotionally disloyal, is quite naturally something that nongay men reject and distance themselves from.

so in this club we're reaching out to str8 men, saying in effect, this isn't about gays, this is about guys.

because as the cockster has said, every man wants to feel another guy's dick on his own.

not up his butt -- that's degrading and dangerous, and as a chat buddy said to me recently, why would any man do that to another man he loves?

but cock on cock -- men want that. Cause it speaks to their masculinity, their pride, and, as warrior dave says, the sacred bonds between men.

Tom

05-23-2002

Re: sacred male bonding

Couldn't agree more Bill.

There are a lot of elements of the gay subculture that I find just don't fit my sense and perception of masculinity -- They seem "macho", self-conscious, overly aggressive (and perhaps inwardly insecure?) or effeminate. An emphasis on the superficial physical attraction between men rather than the real making of manly friendship, intimacy, sharing and the ulimate sharing among men -- heart to heart, face to face, soul to soul, cock to cock love making.

AND